Spirit gear should not be roll-able by DPS

90 Night Elf Druid
8625
09/30/2012 08:21 PMPosted by Trillien
No. Spirit is very important to Balance Druids, Shadow Priests and Elemental Shaman.


That's one thing. Worrying that Price of Progress is finally going to drop and the mage might take it is a bit different.

Shadow priest took mine last night.
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90 Human Priest
9105
If there was zero justification, blizzard would remove the spirit->hit talents.



The reason why those talents were put in there in the FIRST place was so that healers wouldn't have to switch out gear to be able to DPS. It's not a talent that was designed for DPS main specs.
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If there was zero justification, blizzard would remove the spirit->hit talents.



The reason why those talents were put in there in the FIRST place was so that healers wouldn't have to switch out gear to be able to DPS. It's not a talent that was designed for DPS main specs.


Do you have proof of this? as far as i recall, there has been shadow priest tier gear with spirit on it instead of hit, which kinda negates that comment.
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90 Tauren Druid
4690


The reason why those talents were put in there in the FIRST place was so that healers wouldn't have to switch out gear to be able to DPS. It's not a talent that was designed for DPS main specs.


Do you have proof of this? as far as i recall, there has been shadow priest tier gear with spirit on it instead of hit, which kinda negates that comment.


They did it because of Loot Table bloat; some bosses dropped both Spirit and Hit leather/mail, and it caused plenty of issues throughout Wrath. However this only applies to Armor specific items; Role specific items generally are entirely different matters.

Some healing specs only needing one set of gear to DPS and Heal with was a side effect.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955
09/30/2012 09:55 PMPosted by Kildarre
No. Spirit is very important to Balance Druids, Shadow Priests and Elemental Shaman.


Spirit gear is important because it provides... wait for it... hit. There's no reason caster DPS needs to be rolling on...


You just answered for me.

Spi = hit for my shadow spec

Spi = regen for my healing spec

Its great, I will roll on it.
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Do you have proof of this? as far as i recall, there has been shadow priest tier gear with spirit on it instead of hit, which kinda negates that comment.


They did it because of Loot Table bloat; some bosses dropped both Spirit and Hit leather/mail, and it caused plenty of issues throughout Wrath. However this only applies to Armor specific items; Role specific items generally are entirely different matters.

Some healing specs only needing one set of gear to DPS and Heal with was a side effect.


That's what I thought I had read too, it was all about loot bloat.
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90 Troll Druid
9130
I always roll on spirit gear if it's something I can use a balance druid :P

Now if a mage is rolling on it, which I have seen often, let the /slapping begin. I've even some GEMMING spirit *head desk*
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
I want I want I want, me me me, now now now. -Captain Hook, Hook
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90 Undead Priest
HC
10320
your idea that spirit = healer only is misguided and wrong, its time to get with the times. fact is, most BiS pieces for hybrid classes have spirit on them... its as much of an important stat for them as it is for healers and you need to accept that!

its not like youre the only ones in the game that have to share your gear!
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90 Draenei Shaman
10560


I will still disagree with you on rings and neck. Trinkets I can understand mainly because dps typically want just straight int on there trinkets and shouldn't be needing the hit/spirit on the trinket.


There are seperate Hit and Spirit rings/necks, so there really is ~Zero~ justification for a hybrid DPS to roll on them for DPS.

Secondary stat will determine which I go for. I'll roll need on +Spirit, +Haste over a piece with +Hit, +Crit as Haste is far better for me than Crit is.

Remember, Spirit is better for me than Hit is as Spirit helps my out of combat mana regen and can be used for my Resto set. Hit helps neither.
Edited by Jaswin on 10/1/2012 9:16 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
4690
your idea that spirit = healer only is misguided and wrong, its time to get with the times. fact is, most BiS pieces for hybrid classes have spirit on them... its as much of an important stat for them as it is for healers and you need to accept that!

its not like youre the only ones in the game that have to share your gear!


We aren't talking BiS gear, we are talking gear from 5 man heroics, BIIGGGG difference.
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90 Tauren Druid
4690


There are seperate Hit and Spirit rings/necks, so there really is ~Zero~ justification for a hybrid DPS to roll on them for DPS.

Secondary stat will determine which I go for. I'll roll need on +Spirit, +Haste over a piece with +Hit, +Crit as Haste is far better for me than Crit is.

Remember, Spirit is better for me than Hit is as Spirit helps my out of combat mana regen and can be used for my Resto set. Hit helps neither.


Would you take said item from someone who needs the item and can use 100% of its stats to improve their performance in their role in a manner that is more than just doing more damage?

The ENTIRE point of reforging is to allow sub-BiS pieces to fill in the gap between the BiS and non-BiS gear; and this only reinforces the standard(which is now more paramount than ever) that if a Healer needs a Spirit item against a Spriest/Boomkin/Elesham, the Healer gets priority.
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Heroic dungeon gear can be considered BiS for a pre-raid set, unless you plan on waiting to gear up through LFR before even touching raids...
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90 Undead Priest
HC
10320
10/01/2012 09:28 PMPosted by Bherwolfe
We aren't talking BiS gear, we are talking gear from 5 man heroics, BIIGGGG difference.


i am talking bis (pre raid). that aside even, the principle still stands: spirit is also a dps stat now.

Would you take said item from someone who needs the item and can use 100% of its stats to improve their performance in their role in a manner that is more than just doing more damage?

The ENTIRE point of reforging is to allow sub-BiS pieces to fill in the gap between the BiS and non-BiS gear; and this only reinforces the standard(which is now more paramount than ever) that if a Healer needs a Spirit item against a Spriest/Boomkin/Elesham, the Healer gets priority.


'just doing more damage' is improved performance in a role if that role is to do damage. healing isnt some magical role that takes priority over everything else... good dps is also a very important to any group (arguably the most important role) and therefore shouldnt be de-prioritized to any extent.

im sorry if you dont like the idea of dps rolling on your stuff, but thats the way the game is now
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90 Human Priest
7665
Price of Progress .... Pally Tank .... Sigh

And anyone justifying it by saying that Spirit = Hit (for SPriests) is stupid. There is enough hit gear out there without rolling on a clear healer trinket. It would be just the same as me saying that I should be able to roll on stuff with hit rating because the other stats 'improve my healing' over a lower ilvl item I might be wearing... there is some pretty clear loot priorities imo....
Edited by Jeppie on 10/1/2012 11:57 PM PDT
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90 Undead Priest
HC
10320
hit does nothing for a healer so it would be dumb for you to roll on hit gear

spirit does stuff for casters so its not dumb for them to roll on spirit gear
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
<- The healer rolled DE.

Seriously. I guess he thought his Mithril Stopwatch was better.
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90 Tauren Druid
4690
10/01/2012 11:50 PMPosted by Holidays
i am talking bis (pre raid). that aside even, the principle still stands: spirit is also a dps stat now.


For Armor specific pieces, yes....NOT Rings, Necklaces, Cloaks, Trinkets, Weapons and Off hands, not by a Long shot.

'just doing more damage' is improved performance in a role if that role is to do damage. healing isnt some magical role that takes priority over everything else... good dps is also a very important to any group (arguably the most important role) and therefore shouldnt be de-prioritized to any extent.

im sorry if you dont like the idea of dps rolling on your stuff, but thats the way the game is now


Tell me, please, just ~how~ many times has the marginal difference a piece of 5 man heroic BiS gear has made in saving the group when sh!t hits the fan? Or what about then someone messes up a mechanic?

All are situations where a healer having the extra regen the spirit piece would have assisted greatly in preventing a wipe and allowing success. Strong DPS is a Boon, yes, but never, Never at the cost of the performance of a healer.
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90 Tauren Druid
4690
hit does nothing for a healer so it would be dumb for you to roll on hit gear

spirit does stuff for casters so its not dumb for them to roll on spirit gear


Spirit does ~nothing~ for a Spriest, Boomkin or Ele shaman when there is an item available that has hit on it and the spirit item would have been taken away from a healer who needed it.

That is, ultimately, the bottom line: a DPS can suffer a sub par item, but a healer is expected to cover mistakes, within reason, and hence, They are the ones who get greater benefit from such items. A missed spell or two will not wipe a group, but an oom healer WILL do exactly that more often than not.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13490
True, hence why the loot system needs to have a priority system tied to it:
Spirit Ring drops; R druid rolls need, Spriest rolls need, Prot pally rolls need for off spec;
System applies the priority to the druid, then the priest, finally the paladin.


Resto Druid and Shadow Priest would have equal main spec priority. Paladin would have off spec priority.

Spirit does ~nothing~ for a Spriest, Boomkin or Ele shaman when there is an item available that has hit on it and the spirit item would have been taken away from a healer who needed it.


Human Spriests get more out of Spirit than they do Hit.

That aside, SPriests, Boomkin and Ele Shaman get equal benefit from Spirit and from Hit.
Edited by Elethia on 10/2/2012 2:47 AM PDT
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