The "SYMBIOSIS needs to be changed" thread

90 Night Elf Druid
0
I think it's fine except the cast time and that it can't be used in combat (although I can see why this is a thing, since in PVP, you could just cancel Symbiosis on yourself while your stolen ability is on cooldown, reapply it to someone else, and get another ability).
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
8425
Symbiosis will probably be better when more people are aware that it exists and what skills they gain from it. I've given up on pub tanks for now because most of them don't even realize that they have an extra CD. Right now it really feels more like linking with whoever gives me MY favorite spell.

With the exception of linking with a Paladin as resto (yay Cleanse. Yay.), I've had quite a bit of fun with it.
Reply Quote
1 Orc Warrior
0
09/30/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Redbrik
  • It has absolutely no use outside of groups. It's the only spell I know of that behaves that way. Perhaps letting it be cast on enemies for a minor spell that can be used while out soloing/doing dailies would help.


  • This. Especially since everyone else can permanently use it while soloing by farming a not-so-rare npc in the world.
    Why is it OK for every class *but* druid to use the druid capstone spell while questing ?

  • 5.5 second cast time. I can't count the times I go to cast this and someone goes into combat, then it fails. Does it really need a long cast time? Asking people to wait is unpleasant for all involved. Especially since you need to wait to figure out who you want to cast it on, either for your benefit or maybe to benefit the healer/tank.
  • Cant be cast in combat. Related to above. I think I know why this is, the developers dont want us changing which spell we get in boss fights to give us an advantage. Maybe a medium cooldown like 15 minutes or so would be better. Some people prefer to chain pull instances for faster runs. This doesn't give us the opportunity we need to cast.


  • I think it should remain uncastable in combat, and be an instant cast on gcd. I'm pretty sure it already has a built-in cooldown as well. I don't remember what it is, but I do remember I was playing around on the first day with it just randomly casting on people -- and discovered I had to wait several minutes inbetween each.


    Moonkin Spells. There's only 1 spell we receive that aids our DPS and that's the mage's Mirror Image spell. The other's vary by situation but I feel are pretty useless outside of PvP. Tanks get a few spells for tanking, feral and resto also get multiple spells to help them in their specialization.


    There's a few that are "dps" for feral, but only shaman is a direct dps increase. Death coil would only be useable if you're energy capped and can't get in range of boss... otherwise it's a dps loss. It'd be like giving moonkins eviscerate and having it cost half an eclipse state while doing less damage than a single wrath or starfire.
    The best choices for feral are warlock and rogue for the added utility in dealing with our long buildup on switches.
    The choices for boomkin similarly seem to be shoring up traditional weak points. You might think of it as pvp only, but the ability to be a soaker on an Ultrax or Baleroc type encounter, or help on dispelling (when all dispels are now 8s cds...) is some pretty big utility. There's a reason the blizz group that won the challenge mode used a boomkin and priest in their comp.

    The recipient. Most are unaware that they get a spell or even where to find it. Sometimes our spellbooks like like a blur when we're in a hurry. I have to tell them which spell they got and most of the time, how to find it. Maybe a nice pop-up similar to the special abilities button for boss fights could help.


    This is a very annoying aspect of it. The spell needs to simply be named "Symbiosis", regardless of what you got. That way it can actually be used reliably as keybinds and macros. It's very frustrating macroing all the different symbiosis options into different keybinds because they go by their original name.
    It'd also make it a thousand times easier for other classes to find it in their spellbook, because regardless of what spec/class/character they're on... it will always be Symbiosis.
    Reply Quote
    90 Troll Druid
    7385
    09/30/2012 05:08 PMPosted by Redbrik
  • It has absolutely no use outside of groups. It's the only spell I know of that behaves that way. Perhaps letting it be cast on enemies for a minor spell that can be used while out soloing/doing dailies would help.


  • I can think of a few, Focus Magic and Dark Intent.

    This is Focus Magic 3.0. Frankly, I hate what the mechanic does for raid balance and Blizzard removed Dark Intent and Focus Magic for a very good reason. Why the hell did they re-implement a mechanic like it? I would not be surprised to see world first Paragon kills consisting of Feral Druids Ice Blocking and Divine Shielding to cheese their way out of troublesome raid mechanics. Thank god mutiple Druids cant Symbiosis one person is all I can say.
    Edited by Rockpops on 10/1/2012 11:53 AM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Troll Druid
    8345

    This is a very annoying aspect of it. The spell needs to simply be named "Symbiosis", regardless of what you got. That way it can actually be used reliably as keybinds and macros. It's very frustrating macroing all the different symbiosis options into different keybinds because they go by their original name.
    It'd also make it a thousand times easier for other classes to find it in their spellbook, because regardless of what spec/class/character they're on... it will always be Symbiosis.


    This 100%!
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Druid
    8400
    I think the cast time is the way it is for PvP purposes. Run around in PvP till you get out of combat for a second and quickly put Symbiosis on someone else and trade your cooldown while it's on cooldown with another that isn't. I suppose they could change this by making all Symbiosis abilities received by the Druid to "share" a cooldown, but then that might be annoying for PvE encounters where you'd want to have one ability during the trash right before a boss and a different ability during the boss.
    Reply Quote
    20 Pandaren Monk
    14625
    Not sure about Dark Intent but they took FM away from mages it's not a spell anymore.
    I would like to see it be castable on ppl you target even if they are not grouped with you, like MoTW.
    I see a fellow horde member off to side of me while I'm questing I throw a MoTW on him/her.

    I don't think thats too much to ask for even if they don't change the cast time.
    Reply Quote
    100 Night Elf Druid
    8820
    While the mechanics of the spell definitely need some work, the spell itself is just a gimmick as far as I'm concerned, at least until the cast time is removed. As it stands, it's just one of those things that sounds cool but really isn't.

    I really wish the out-of-combat requirement was removed in a dungeon/raid environment, even if it meant imposing a cooldown to say, 45-60 seconds. I think it would really open the possibilities of what a good druid is capable of. This way, you would still be able give the tanks an extra survival spell when they needed it, but you would also be able to acquire spells that benefited your own play while that survival spell was on cooldown (for the tank of course). However, the game would have to keep track of which spells are on cooldown even after the symbiosis target has changed.
    Edited by Catcora on 10/1/2012 4:35 PM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Night Elf Druid
    8095
    Great Concept, Horrible Execution, this is clearly something that should be changed in a patch, preferably sooner than later.

    The topper is every other class can get a better version of this ability with a non-equipped item off a rare mob.
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=86580/overgrown-lilypad
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Druid
    8435
    Great Concept, Horrible Execution, this is clearly something that should be changed in a patch, preferably sooner than later.

    The topper is every other class can get a better version of this ability with a non-equipped item off a rare mob.
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=86580/overgrown-lilypad


    Ehrm... Overgrown lilypad ONLY works in the Mists of Pandaria continent.

    Heres the thing you folks are missing; Dungeons/Raids/Arenas/Scenarios etc, all do not count as Pandaria continent. (Sounds stupid, but this is intended so Druids have something unique to bring to a group)
    It only works in the outside world.

    As for the OP's suggestions, casting in combat will NEVER be allowed, for balance reasons; This is with a cooldown or not.
    The only useful suggestion in the OP that should be implemented is a reduction of cast time because 95% of tanks start pulling before Symbiosis is even half done casting.

    Abilities gained or granted, some of these could use some tweaking. Currently Guardian Druids have some pretty amazing links for PvE, but what I've seen out of Resto links...they're highly situational/gimicky.
    The most useful one is probably an extra dispell...then again...situational...
    I end up taking lifegrip from a priest most of the time.
    Reply Quote
    90 Night Elf Druid
    12130
    09/30/2012 05:12 PMPosted by Sìrchárles
    Agree definitely with the "Recipient", "Group", and "Cast Time" 100%. The other two while being a nice convenience I think those were the intended design choices for a reason.


    Agreed. I'm fine with most of the abilities exchanged being akin to glyphs - more survivability or utility rather than, say, having to crunch numbers for straight DPS enhancement (and maybe forcing rebalancing of an entire spec based on a Symbiosis we may or may not have access to). I especially got a giggle when my Paladin husband fell off a cliff and died, when I fell after him and survived with my borrowed bubble :D

    I'd add an additional complaint to this list though - there's no way to use it intelligently without going outside the game. Whenever I get into a group, I wonder who I'm supposed to put it on... then throw up my hands in frustration because the group just wants to get moving and I don't have time to look up what I get and what they get and OMG we're in combat already I need to move and can't cast it in combat anyway. This gets worse when there's more than one druid.

    Idea for group/solo: Add functionality for Symbiosis, for a self-cast minor buff based on your spec. Thus, if you're in a 5-man with 2 other druids, or soloing, at least you can still get SOME use of your own highest-level ability.

    Idea for the cast time/in combat stuff: The points about it being a rapid-change thing in PvP or switching during boss fights are legit concerns. How about this? Put Symbiosis on a cooldown like a potion: a short cooldown outside combat, but locks you in if cast during combat until you're out of combat again. Reduce or remove the cast time. That allows for those who "oopsie" and cast it on the wrong target to change within a reasonable time, and allows for a little more depth of use in a boss fight.

    Idea for recipeint: Perhaps even just a chat message? Or something that pops up like an encounter message (or both)? "<Caster> has cast Symbiosis on you, granting you <spell>. Check your spellbook!" With the minor cooldown, we wouldn't be able to spam someone overmuch with the message.

    Idea for lack of in-game information: Some sort of dynamic UI interface that shows us a functionality chart would be nice.

  • Show only who's in the group or raid, or gray out selections not available.
  • Group identical exchanges together (ie, no reason to show all three rogue specs since the exchanges are the same), then allow specific target choice off that, like the Master Looter interface.
  • Reply Quote
    1 Orc Warrior
    0
    Ehrm... Overgrown lilypad ONLY works in the Mists of Pandaria continent.

    Heres the thing you folks are missing; Dungeons/Raids/Arenas/Scenarios etc, all do not count as Pandaria continent. (Sounds stupid, but this is intended so Druids have something unique to bring to a group)
    It only works in the outside world.


    The thing you're missing is that Overgrown Lilypad lets them do things with Symbiosis that no druid can.
    - They can use it solo
    - They can instant cast it
    - It has no cd and is not consumed

    The biggest being that Overgrown Lilypad lets non-druids use Symbiosis while questing... a situation where druids can't even use their own spell ?
    It's bs.

    Additionally, grinding dungeons tonight I've now ran across 3 different people that clicked the buff off because they didn't like the exchange. 2 warlocks and a shaman... even while this is as bad as Focus Magic and Dark Intent (two failures of similar concept)... at least nobody would ever click DI off just to grief you.
    I've given up on symbiosis... not even casting it in randoms anymore.
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Druid
    11360
    It has absolutely no use outside of groups. It's the only spell I know of that behaves that way. Perhaps letting it be cast on enemies for a minor spell that can be used while out soloing/doing dailies would help.
    5.5 second cast time. I can't count the times I go to cast this and someone goes into combat, then it fails. Does it really need a long cast time? Asking people to wait is unpleasant for all involved. Especially since you need to wait to figure out who you want to cast it on, either for your benefit or maybe to benefit the healer/tank.
    Cant be cast in combat. Related to above. I think I know why this is, the developers dont want us changing which spell we get in boss fights to give us an advantage. Maybe a medium cooldown like 15 minutes or so would be better. Some people prefer to chain pull instances for faster runs. This doesn't give us the opportunity we need to cast.
    Moonkin Spells. There's only 1 spell we receive that aids our DPS and that's the mage's Mirror Image spell. The other's vary by situation but I feel are pretty useless outside of PvP. Tanks get a few spells for tanking, feral and resto also get multiple spells to help them in their specialization.
    The recipient. Most are unaware that they get a spell or even where to find it. Sometimes our spellbooks like like a blur when we're in a hurry. I have to tell them which spell they got and most of the time, how to find it. Maybe a nice pop-up similar to the special abilities button for boss fights could help.


    I think these complaints revolve around misunderstandings of two things:

    Its a multi-player game and is balanced around groups. (Overgrown Lilypad is unusable in BGs, raids, and dungeons.)

    The spell grants utility to the druid and the target. For boomkins you can get misdirect, antimagic shell, mass dispell, etc to choose from. There is emense strategic value, especially in raids, for this kind of utility. Utility (and mobility) is the halmark of our class.

    As a druid since classic, I love this ability.
    Reply Quote
    1 Orc Warrior
    0
    Its a multi-player game and is balanced around groups. (Overgrown Lilypad is unusable in BGs, raids, and dungeons.)


    So only druids can use it in BGs, raids, and dungeons -- where it's essentially always going to a tank for the betterment of progression.
    And everyone but druids can use it while doing all the rep grind dailies.

    I'm not seeing the positive here.
    It makes absolutely no sense that this is supposed to be our capstone spell for the expansion... and we're the only ones who can't use it.
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Druid
    10685
    I was just going to make a thread asking how Symbiosis appears to other players. They've really made it so people have to make a space on their action bar for it? I think they severely overestimate the intelligence of the average PuG - no wonder I've never seen anyone using the ability they get from it

    Originally I thought it would pop up as an extra button like Meditate on the Taran Zhu fight, but smaller
    Reply Quote
    90 Worgen Druid
    0
    The only thing I'm unhappy about is the party requirement. It doesn't even state that requirement in the tooltip. Please remove that requirement so I can drive by buff people that I run into out in the world.
    Reply Quote
    90 Worgen Mage
    11110
    My main is a guardian druid and I rarely use my symbiosis unless there is dk in the group (for bone armor), shaman (elemental shield) or paladin (for consecration), the rest are just mehh. imo they should let us choose what spells we can symbiosis from their spellbook.
    Reply Quote
    90 Night Elf Druid
    15810
    10/01/2012 06:07 PMPosted by Mortemim
    Great Concept, Horrible Execution


    This quote nails it on the head. Reminds me of Eclipse when they first brought it into game. Great idea, just garbage as far as everything else is concerned. Will take YEARS of changes to make it somewhat acceptable.

    EDIT: Symbiosis should be able to be cast on any FRIENDLY target regardless of group/party involvement. This spell is NOT a game breaker so Blizzard needs to stop treating it like one.
    Edited by Layuth on 10/2/2012 5:41 AM PDT
    Reply Quote
    90 Human Hunter
    11725
    Overgrown Lilypad>SYMBIOSIS
    Reply Quote
    90 Tauren Druid
    15965
    It helps a lot while tanking. havnt really pvped yet to try it out, Some of the spells are meh, and the cast is waaaay to long. but so far i like it.
    Reply Quote

    Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

    Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

    Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

    Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

    Forums Code of Conduct

    Report Post # written by

    Reason
    Explain (256 characters max)
    Submit Cancel

    Reported!

    [Close]