A thankful players response to a CS Response

90 Troll Hunter
9330
10/01/2012 04:44 PMPosted by Rúm
Typical PR spin from a blue that skirts the issue to the side. Shocking.
Typical bashing of a Blue rathering than responding to the post in a mature fashion and rebutting what the Blue said. Enjoy your ban.
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
10/01/2012 04:15 PMPosted by Snowfox
I don't condone offspecs rolling against mainspecs, but it's increasingly standard.


Players treating other players like dirt in LFD is becoming the standard as well but I don't think it should be condoned, the same way resto druids rolling need on str gear shouldn't be condoned.

10/01/2012 04:32 PMPosted by Bashiok
it's essentially a limitation in it not being able to determine spec


The system shouldn't need to determine spec, the system should just recognize the druids will NEVER need a strength item and NEVER let them roll need on it.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10495

Snow, if I fail the neurophysiology test I've been studying for all day because your post made my brain implode I'm going to have to hunt you down in game and /pout at you.


Random behavior reinforcement is best accomplished by mixing cognitive dissonance and culture jamming. I'm not sure to what end, but the gods of chaos tell me the rng goddess will favor me for doing so.


Marry me.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
10/02/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Paladinchaz
I'm not entitled to gear up faster. I'd only be entitled if I didn't also have the same expectation from others, which is that if a boomkin wants to need on the healing trinket when I am healing - it's his right to do so. I'm not gearing up any faster that way, I'm playing fair rolls on gear both of us have a need for.


Not everyone feels that they should click the "Need' button every time there is an option to do it though

I was running last night and a cloth helm dropped, but I was able to click "Need" on it should I have chosen, should I have "Needed" on that since I had the ability to?


There's a difference between rolling on gear you can use and can't use. I'll admit, there's definately some bugs like the helm you mention and the agi trinket in scholo.

I think there needs to be a better way for people to know my main spec is elemental, and my main spec is not whatever it happens to be in our group. Otherwise, the concept of main spec becomes they spec you are playing and offspec becomes the spec you are not currently playing. So is you mainspec is always the one you are playing, when do you play your offspec?

My real concern is I don't think any single person is entitled to any single piece of loot that it took 5 people to kill. And, I think it's for the greater good when I make queue times shorter for everyone by healing. But if you'd rather us sit there in queue than do the dungeon - I guess I can hop in line as dps too if that's what you think entitles me to gear for my mainspec. Although, I really think the whole of the player base sitting in more queues isn't really in the spirit of the game.
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90 Troll Hunter
9330


Death Knights shouldn't be able to roll need on Int maces. Nothing to do with spec.
Hunters should be able to roll need on Agility trinkets with +Chance to hit on them.
Again, read before yo post. That trinnket is bugged. Get informed next time so you don't look like the idiot you are now.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
I don't condone offspecs rolling against mainspecs, but it's increasingly standard.


My issue with this is defining mainspec and offspec. Again, if mainspec is defined as the spec you are currently playing, then when do you play your offspec?

My main spec, is ALWAYS elemental. No matter what I do. But in a 5 man group in which I'm healing, I'm not really sure how you're supposed to know that.
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1 Human Paladin
0
The only problem with the loot system is how some restrictions are applied yet some are not.

Like a non-STR based classes being able to roll need on STR based items, while STR Based classes can not roll need on non-STR based class items.

Seeing as the issue is to create a more smarter need/greed system, it make more sense(and easier) to just remove restrictions in its entirety.

Main spec = OS is fine for LFD random rules, if you wish MS>OS then you have to form your own group.
Edited by Staed on 10/2/2012 10:49 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Shaman
10560
Similarly if you're joining a pickup Raid you're at the mercy of the raid leader, who may hand his buddy a drop for no reason other than to unfairly take items from the raid group. This may not be usable advice for everyone, but: the best way to ensure you get the drops you want, or type of drops, is form a group yourself with friends/guildies you know and trust.

Back to the need/greed system though, it's essentially a limitation in it not being able to determine spec, and our CS department just can't play arbiter for every drop to determine who 'deserves' an item more than someone else. While it can be a frustrating situation, I hope at least that makes sense.

I really recommend reading the following articles. They have a ton of info on why things work the way they do:
  • [url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/loot-settings"]Loot Settings[/url]
  • [url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/ninja-looting-blizzard-s-stance"]Ninja Looting: Blizzard's Stance[/url]
  • [url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/scam-policy"]Scam Policy[/url]

That said, there have been ongoing discussions on at some point revisiting the need/greed system in dungeons. Until such a time and day as the dungeon loot system changes, be well aware that you'll be competing for loot, but if you have the resources - go with friends.


So random instance ppl are now friendless and losers. Gotcha. Ppl that have to resort to queing up should be prepared to suck it up and receive the consequences of such actions.

Overwhelming displays lately showing no caring no nothing except stiff stony indifference from the ppl who literally make the rules. Just getting easier and easier to find that opt out feature. Well, maybe the slightest bit of caring.

And I have to say, MvPs I thought were given that special status cause they were helpful, thoughtful and uplifting to the ppl coming here with problems/questions not just as mischievous callous and seemingly inflammatory as a typical troll would be.
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90 Worgen Hunter
9675


Death Knights shouldn't be able to roll need on Int maces. Nothing to do with spec.
Hunters should be able to roll need on Agility trinkets with +Chance to hit on them.
Again, read before yo post. That trinnket is bugged. Get informed next time so you don't look like the idiot you are now.


There's more than just one bugged item and the lack of a fix to it is part of the complaint in this thread. Maybe you should worry about getting informed yourself?
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90 Human Paladin
15050
There's a difference between rolling on gear you can use and can't use. I'll admit, there's definately some bugs like the helm you mention and the agi trinket in scholo.


This is true, though I could have perfectly used the cloth helm, it was itemized for healing, and while its looked down upon to use; should my OS been Holy I could have equiped and used it

I think there needs to be a better way for people to know my main spec is elemental, and my main spec is not whatever it happens to be in our group. Otherwise, the concept of main spec becomes they spec you are playing and offspec becomes the spec you are not currently playing. So is you mainspec is always the one you are playing, when do you play your offspec?


Thats the thing though, you choose as soon as you queue up, you cant use both sets of gear at the same time, you have to make a choice on what gear you're going to use, so that should chose what gear, at the time you're eligible for.

My real concern is I don't think any single person is entitled to any single piece of loot that it took 5 people to kill. And, I think it's for the greater good when I make queue times shorter for everyone by healing. But if you'd rather us sit there in queue than do the dungeon - I guess I can hop in line as dps too if that's what you think entitles me to gear for my mainspec. Although, I really think the whole of the player base sitting in more queues isn't really in the spirit of the game.


I dont think that either, that argument goes both ways though, I dont think any single person is entitled to all of the loot that they could possibly use at the expense of others in the group. It took everyone to kill the boss.
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90 Worgen Hunter
9675
10/02/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Firestyle
I don't condone offspecs rolling against mainspecs, but it's increasingly standard.


My issue with this is defining mainspec and offspec. Again, if mainspec is defined as the spec you are currently playing, then when do you play your offspec?

My main spec, is ALWAYS elemental. No matter what I do. But in a 5 man group in which I'm healing, I'm not really sure how you're supposed to know that.


Easy. Remove the three "Tank, Heal, DPS" checkboxes from the queue screen and add class specific "Resto, Enh, Elemental" checkboxes. Whatever you queue as is your main spec in that dungeon. There are 11 year olds who could figure that out for Blizz.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
I think there needs to be a better way for people to know my main spec is elemental, and my main spec is not whatever it happens to be in our group. Otherwise, the concept of main spec becomes they spec you are playing and offspec becomes the spec you are not currently playing. So is you mainspec is always the one you are playing, when do you play your offspec?


Thats the thing though, you choose as soon as you queue up, you cant use both sets of gear at the same time, you have to make a choice on what gear you're going to use, so that should chose what gear, at the time you're eligible for.


I would like to choose role and gear independently at the selection screen, where I will heal - and roll as dps only.

Alternatively, if I was forced into choosing healer gear along with healer role at the selection screen, then I would be dps and we'd all wait longer.

I just want you to be aware, the cost of what you are asking for is longer queues. It's hard to measure, but given the frequency of QQ posts about this issue, I think you can get some indication for the amount of dps players out there who are currently meeting the high demand for tanks and healers. I suspect a substantial increase in queue times would occur if these players were forced into the dps queue, from A) fewer groups being formed due to less tanks and healers, and also from B) more dps in queue as the tanks/healers that previously met the demand for those roles now queue as dps.
Edited by Firestyle on 10/2/2012 11:00 AM PDT
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
10/02/2012 10:46 AMPosted by Firestyle
My real concern is I don't think any single person is entitled to any single piece of loot that it took 5 people to kill.


So let's say you're running a 5man heroic with your guildies. You kill the first boss and a tank item drops, do you tell the plate DPS in the group to roll need on that item with the tank since you know no single person is entitled to loot and all...? I'm guessing not.

The truth is you would NEVER do that to your guild tank because we'd all agree that would be a real crappy thing to do, but apparently to some of you when you're in LFD it's okay to treat other players like crap.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
The truth is you would NEVER do that to your guild tank because we'd all agree that would be a real crappy thing to do, but apparently to some of you when you're in LFD it's okay to treat other players like crap.


I'd never do that to a guild tank because it is not in the best interest of the guild.

Conversely, I healed a 5 man with the guild. It was stormstout brewery and a spirit trinket dropped. Now, I am our 4th healer in line (e.g. I rarely heal unless two other healers are not present). The druid in our group was a boomkin there, bu the is our 3rd healer in line. While I did roll need on the trinket, I gave it to him. Again, because that is in the best interest of the guild.

I'm not playing devil's advocate here, I don't want my cake and to eat it too. I really do abide by fair game on need roles for MS and OS in anything i run. And you won't catch me making a loot QQ post because I lost a roll.
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90 Human Paladin
15050
just want you to be aware, the cost of what you are asking for is longer queues. It's hard to measure, but given the frequency of QQ posts about this issue, I think you can get some indication for the amount of dps players out there who are currently meeting the high demand for tanks and healers. I suspect a substantial increase in queue times would occur if these players were forced into the dps queue, from A) fewer groups being formed due to less tanks and healers, and also from B) more dps in queue as the tanks/healers that previously met the demand for those roles now queue as dps.


Its not though, the same system exists in LFR, and that didnt make queues any longer.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5865
I'm disappointed that I know longer see rolls in chat. In the past, if an OS item dropped, I'd wait to see if someone else rolled NEED for it. If they did, I'd let it pass. If not, I'd roll NEED on it for myself.

Now I can't do that and offer even that small, silent, courtesy to others. Now, I may as well roll NEED all the time and deal with drama afterward of trying to trade the item if someone gets all cranky.

Because now, there will be no discussion before folks hit the button. They'll just react before any conversation can begin, since the tank is already gogogoing and pulling the next pack anyway.

(Not that there's a lot of MS/OS stuff for warlocks per se, but moreso for my other toons...)


Yeah that upsets me as well. Though an AddOn I had been using for a while, now tells me who chooses what "Need/Greed/Pass/Disenchant" Called XLootGroup. Didn't before, but I assume it was updated in absence of it telling you in chat.

If you use addons, should take a gander at it ^^.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
10/02/2012 11:08 AMPosted by Paladinchaz
just want you to be aware, the cost of what you are asking for is longer queues. It's hard to measure, but given the frequency of QQ posts about this issue, I think you can get some indication for the amount of dps players out there who are currently meeting the high demand for tanks and healers. I suspect a substantial increase in queue times would occur if these players were forced into the dps queue, from A) fewer groups being formed due to less tanks and healers, and also from B) more dps in queue as the tanks/healers that previously met the demand for those roles now queue as dps.


Its not though, the same system exists in LFR, and that didnt make queues any longer.


That's because the ratio of tanks and healers to dps is 2:17, and 6:17 respectively. Not the 1:3 that would occur in 5 mans. This ratio is one of the reasons that LFR is 25 man only.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
Yeah that upsets me as well. Though an AddOn I had been using for a while, now tells me who chooses what "Need/Greed/Pass/Disenchant" Called XLootGroup. Didn't before, but I assume it was updated in absence of it telling you in chat.

If you use addons, should take a gander at it ^^.


You can just turn on rolls in the display options window I think. I see them.
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57 Pandaren Monk
2920
10/01/2012 05:02 PMPosted by Bashiok
Typical PR spin from a blue that skirts the issue to the side. Shocking.


Typical response debasing a logical response and providing no rebuttal, requests, or questions. Why bother?


Win.
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
10/02/2012 11:06 AMPosted by Firestyle
I'd never do that to a guild tank because it is not in the best interest of the guild.


Yes, which is why I'm quite sure you would be labeled a jerk by your guild if you did that to one of your guild tanks but somehow it's perfectly acceptable to be a jerk to people in LFD.
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