Leveling 85-90

90 Human Monk
6060
Ok so bout to level my pally and ive seen people leveling as holy...is this the new leveling spec or go ret or Prot?
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89 Tauren Paladin
3875
Wondering the same.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
3905
After trying ALL 3, i ahve to say ret is still the way to go. Holy literally wont ever die, but they lack any dmg imo. Prot can pull a very large amount of mobs as usual and with seal of insight and wog healing evry now and then it is good for wittling down the groups, but vs single target they really lack.

Ret is great with inquisition always up, witht he holy avenger skill and the instant flash of lights talent. Awesome dmg output with relaly big numbers. Ret is the way to go to level its faster, more efficient, and much more fun.
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90 Tauren Paladin
14655
Went ret, didn't die once leveling, and ret will def do more damage than any of the other two specs.
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90 Human Paladin
16755
I imagine if I had attempted to level as Holy I would have stabbed myself. Mob health skyrockets the second you enter Pandaria.
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100 Human Paladin
15935
I've been going back and forth, which is very unusual for me. Tiraslin's always been holy. Last xpac she had two holy specs. I will say that its about as painless as its ever been, perhaps slightly better than in the past... against single mobs.

If you have to face 3-4 or heaven help you more mobs at once, and it happens (some of the critters positively swarm in Pandaria) you're going to want to be anything but holy. Holy lacks any AoE damage ability whatsoever, and that coupled with a slower single-target kill (noticeable but tolerable on single mobs) can lead to some epically long fights against what is really just world trash (vermin. really).
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10 Blood Elf Warlock
11780
10/02/2012 01:03 AMPosted by Tiraslin
Holy lacks any AoE damage ability whatsoever


While levelling yes. At 90 you can talent for an AoE on a 1min cooldown.

I levelled to 90 as ret though and seem to plow through stuff ok.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Actually, you can get an AoE on a 20 sec cd (admittedly, only hits 5 targets). But yep, holy's prob the worst spec to level as. Ret is superior for single target, prot is superior for AoE (and probably superior in the survivability front too).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11650
I've been levelling holy, almost to 88.

Biggest issues so far:
1) most of the quest rewards have ZERO spirit. They're tailored to the spec you're in, so yes, this is an issue Blizz. Mana regen is no longer provided by intel. We NEED spirit for regen. And yet, so far about 75% of the tailored quest rewards have had no spirit, and we don't even have the option to choose gear for a secondary spec. I'm getting close to 88 - and three levels in, I'm still sporting some cata gear due to this issue.

2) No AOE ability to speak of. With the "lower" health swarms (bugs, sprites), this makes killing them painfully slow and makes mana consumption high with the slower single target swats. When you're talking mobs of 7 at over 75-100k hp apiece, it's really painfully grindy.

3) Reduced damage. Yes, I know some people will scream that holy isn't a damage spec. However, with the quest rewards tailored to your active spec - and the stated intent to be able to level as any spec, as I move into KW and have mobs not uncommonly 365k or better - being able to swat for more than 12-15k non crit would be useful.

Being able to hit crits for 40k on mobs with 165k HP, non crit for 15-20k, was fine. The mobs have scaled hp faster than spellpower has scaled abilities by far though, so what worked in earlier zones is getting progressively more painful, and for (see above) rewards that I won't even use.

(I understand the PvP implications - however, many other mechanics (in the past) have been designed to work differently in PvP than against non player mobs - and I feel a shortcut nuking overall damage was taken that hinders questing to the point I'm about to switch specs.)

On the plus side, I've died exactly one time - got swarmed by the mantids at the edge of VoFW heading towards KW - and 7-8 mobs poison bolting and swarming wasn't surviveable for long. (I had the good fortune to manage to aggro not one, but two of the three mob pats, plus 2 ground mobs lol.) For those who haven't been there, think silithid dens in Silithus at level in vanilla.

Overall - holy starts out good, goes to ok, and seems to hit "ohmygod please just die already" phase around 87-88.
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90 Human Paladin
8980
I'm up to 54% of the way through 89 totally as Holy and have only healed 3 or 4 dungeons.
Bahnshee is correct.

If you have ever done any dailies at 85 as Holy after the patch dropped, it was fine.
It gets progressively harder, as the HP of mobs goes up in higher zones.

I had 3 level 90 mobs on me that had 365K HP each and it seemed like it took forever to kill them all.
You won't die but you may feel like killing yourself at some point if you go Holy from 85-90.
And I have reforged the gear I am using as my "DPS" set trying to get more bang out of my DPS.

I'm going to finish as Holy because I'm this close now but I would not do it again.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
16565
I leveled as ret because I don't hate my life. However, I tried to do Cloud Serpent dailys as holy because queue times were just long enough to not be instant but not long enough to actually make respeccing not annoying. I think in the 3 - 5 minute queue time, I could whittle two mobs down. Which since you only have to kill 8, isn't awful but some of the Klaxxi dailys require you to kill 17 mobs or more. As holy dying isn't even a reality whereas ret, some of the mobs can get a little scary with how hard they hit. Though, I wouldn't want to attempt to kill the serpents in Vale as holy since they have over 1m hp.

In Townlong and dread wastes, you do get a choice of gear that your class can use, not just your spec can use. However, spirit gear is few and far between and you will need spirit in some of the heroics. It really seems like holy is meant only for group play and nothing else (even though int plate never wants to drop) and we are being forced into having a spec capable of damage.
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90 Human Paladin
5930
I went prot and it was fairly slow going at times. Sometimes it's hard to find groups to mob up, and sometimes they just want to take eons to die. But I still had a lot of fun and still made it to 90 in a week or so.

I also kept a holy off-spec for BG leveling on the side and PvP at 90 and I was also disappointed at the lack of spirit on healing gear. I briefly wondered if they were messing with our stat priority but I seriously doubt that's the case. A couple times I tried questing as holy and it just...wasn't...happening.

I suggest taking holy or prot as an off spec, give prot a fair try and if you aren't in a hurry you might enjoy it. If you're gonna rush it, go ret.

I'll also take this moment to complain that I felt like Blizzard was going back on their "every spec should be viable for leveling" thing they've been doing. I feel like they were trying to pigeonhole me into leveling ret, ret is the leveling spec, we just took a step all the way back to vanilla.
Edited by Eldevane on 10/2/2012 6:09 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
12265
I leveled prot mostly because I really like prot. Yeah its slower on single target but I pull bunches of mobs and AoE them down so its actually pretty fast especially with vengeance. If about half my attacks are AoE I may as well use them. Its awesome being able to tap everything before other people and just let them beat on you while you tap more stuff and then kill them all in a large group and only have to loot once.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11650
I'll also take this moment to complain that I felt like Blizzard was going back on their "every spec should be viable for leveling" thing they've been doing. I feel like they were trying to pigeonhole me into leveling ret, ret is the leveling spec, we just took a step all the way back to vanilla.


Yupyup. Agree. And priests are in a similar (holy worse) spot.

That said us (and now monks) are in a unique position - we don't HAVE a dps class that uses the stats our heal gear uses. We don't spec-share gear at ALL, unlike shammies, druids, and priests. So missing stats on gear is a really big deal, and being able to quest to GET the gear with the right stats is a big one as well.

I know I'm repeating myself, but it seems that instead of making abilities function differently in pve vs pvp situations, it was easier just to nerf the damage with an overall algorithm, instead of either changing the scaling at higher levels, or changing the way some of the abilties work in a pvp environment.

I won't argue that penance/holy shock should NOT be one shotting people in lower level bgs. I don't think anyone really thinks that was reasonable enough to last long.

At the same time, I don't think the coefficient that ramps up the damage is effective at the higher levels, where mob health starts at around 145k hp in zone 1, and is already almost double that on average halfway through. And I've hit a few around 1 mil HP, like the last part of the Temple of the White Tiger quest (embodiment? spirit? of hatred).

I don't have the developer tools to say "here's what would fix this perfectly!" What I can tell them is the "level as any spec to get rewards for that spec!" isn't working well at all past 86/early 87. That the stat weights for healers, or at least plate healers, needs reworked so we don't lose a bloody ton of spirit "upgrading."

That something needs adjusted to make levelling in your heal spec at least moderately less painful. (I'm not asking for equal dps to a dps class - just a reasonable scale up so we can keep up as mob HP scales up so high.)

And several classes/specs need at least a semi-effective AoE with the way some of the mobs have been designed.
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