Tanks please stop taking dps gear

100 Tauren Paladin
10030
10/02/2012 11:57 PMPosted by Veliladon
Only good for pally tanks. It's awful for bear tanks as well. Not sure why pallys are the only class to get haste lowering the GCD. I'd kill for a faster GCD/cooldowns on my bear.


Well Blood DKs don't need haste. They are on a 1 sec GCD now. So I'm the one that's jealous. Jealous of Gorefiend's grasp too.

Edit: As far as the Seal of Insight discussion goes, I think you people are seriously underestimating it. I was tanking The Stone Guard tonight and with only a 46% uptime on SoI during a 4 minute fight it did 1.7 million in healing with only 5.1% overheal (I wouldn't call that "mostly".) That's only two mobs I was tanking. Sadly, I only got 4 pulls in before my internet crapped out and I missed the kill :(.
Edited by Blizzhoof on 10/3/2012 7:40 AM PDT
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90 Troll Death Knight
0
10/03/2012 01:16 AMPosted by Rijdot
There's an AP component so especially with the recent dev intervention it's clear it's intended to be used, but it's like most DoT ticks - mostly overheal.


It will be a little bit better now than in DS though at least in my experience since I spent a lot of time hovering around 80% health.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
10/03/2012 07:39 AMPosted by Mortalitus
It will be a little bit better now than in DS though at least in my experience since I spent a lot of time hovering around 80% health.


To reference another poster: the reason people don't use SoI is the same reason people don't spec Blood Craze. Its healing is miniscule, barely noticeable, does not change the way your healers heal you (they'll still drop that Holy Light on your head, it'll just have a bit more overheal now) and therefore saves them no mana, and is highly unlikely to save your life in addition to being mostly overheal.

I've yet to see any evidence, even exploiting the AoE component of it with high Vengeance, that that has changed in MoP.
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OM NOM NOM NOM DPS GEAR.

Get over it. Such is the life of LFD. Don't like it? Take a Guild Group.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
6935
Naridios Naridios
Stormrage
Profile Naridios
90 Night Elf Warrior
Shave My Boomkin
7020 I have been ninjaed by a tank more times than i can count since i started to run heroics please stop I need dps gear to! you all are giving good tanks a bad name!

SAYS THE GUY WITH TANKING WRIST -_-
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90 Pandaren Warrior
9405
There is no honor system in randoms at all due to the !@#$wad theory. Just roll need on what your class can use if you're really going to use it and think nothing of it. If you're scared of getting kicked then only do it on the last boss.
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90 Tauren Paladin
14060
The system is clearly broken, as rogues can roll need on Armsmaster's Sealed Locket. We need better looting rules on lfd.

I've lost it to two rogues, one dps paladin and a warrior. RNG hates me :(

Edit: As far as the Seal of Insight discussion goes, I think you people are seriously underestimating it. I was tanking The Stone Guard tonight and with only a 46% uptime on SoI during a 4 minute fight it did 1.7 million in healing with only 5.1% overheal (I wouldn't call that "mostly".) That's only two mobs I was tanking. Sadly, I only got 4 pulls in before my internet crapped out and I missed the kill :(.


As threat is no longer an issue, I'm using SoI on heroics and pulling 10-15k heal per second, and usually half of the healing from the healer. It saves you from a lot of bad team wipes.
Edited by Imyourtank on 10/4/2012 7:27 AM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
8295
Haste is a true paladin tanking stat now. Lets us generate more HOPO and increases the uptime on shield of the righteous. Crit is not though. Haste is for items shared by tank/dps. Same for this hit/mastery things.

Or to put it another way, as long as there be no crit on the plate. It is a tanking piece. It might also be a DPS piece but a piece can be both for tanks and dps.

I only get disappointed when parry/dodge items get taken by non tanks.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13465
It will be a little bit better now than in DS though at least in my experience since I spent a lot of time hovering around 80% health.


To reference another poster: the reason people don't use SoI is the same reason people don't spec Blood Craze. Its healing is miniscule, barely noticeable, does not change the way your healers heal you (they'll still drop that Holy Light on your head, it'll just have a bit more overheal now) and therefore saves them no mana, and is highly unlikely to save your life in addition to being mostly overheal.

I've yet to see any evidence, even exploiting the AoE component of it with high Vengeance, that that has changed in MoP.


From this I'm going to guess that you haven't actually tried tanking with SoI in a raid this expansion. Its entirely possible SoI is currently bugged, making it too good, but the results are actually fairly spectacular. I swapped to it out of desperation against Stone Guard (because Censure was hitting so hard it made early tank swapping difficult. 30k censure ticks ftw) but then would swap back to SoT after things were settled.

But on the kill I accidentally left SoI on the whole time. The results were spectacular. It proced off every single auto-attack, CS, ShoR and HotR (it only seemed to proc off the physical hits, not the holy nova hits, but its possible I was mistaken. Battle Healer certainly procs off the Holy Nova hits) and averaged a 20k heal each time. Over the fight, I almost exactly matched our DK in healing output and we were both roughly 3/4 of where the healers were.

SoI and SS were collectively 52% of my healing received, and my incoming healing had less than 12% total overheal (19% on SoI), so I sincerely doubt SoI was just forcing significant additional overheals.

SS was my largest source of healing, followed very closely by SoI, and I got more healing from just SoI over the fight than from:

Rejuv
PW: S
Healing Wave
Riptide
Wild Growth

combined, which were the #3 through #7 sources of healing for me (obviously, we 3-healed it with a disc priest, a resto shammy and a tree). If I had glyphed Battle Healer, I might have caught the bottom healer (my crit ShoR's averaged 200k which would have been 60k heals for someone).

At the moment, I'm going to lean towards saying its way too powerful and needs a nerf. One could argue that SoI *should* be weak enough that we never use it, but saying that SoI *IS* so weak that we should never use it is ridiculous. Its not too weak. Its OP.

The blues have clearly said that seal choice is our offense/survivability trade-off so we'll see where they go with this.
Edited by Wrathblood on 10/4/2012 8:13 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
13465
Additionally, Hatsume is right on regarding itemization. The only secondary stats that clearly aren't prot pally tanking stats are Crit and Spirit.

I was tanking with a DK last night and we had a dps warrior in the raid as well. When the STR/Haste/Exp bracers dropped off Gara'jal and I rolled need, multiple "WTF?!?!" cries were heard on Mumble. But, as I explained last night, Haste and Exp are actually good tanking stats for me now.

As Theck demonstrated in his extremely eye-opening recent post http://sacredduty.net/2012/10/02/damage-smoothing-expertise-mastery-and-haste/

Prot pallies want to cap Hit and then *HARD* cap Exp before anything else. After that, its a little up in the air. Your might want to stack Mastery, but Haste is very close to being as good and will boost your dps significantly (which actually matters for tanks these days. Gara'jal's enrage timer says "Hi").

Our worst tanking stat is Crit, which makes sense. But Dodge and Parry might be our next worst after that which makes things very confusing in terms of who should get what gear. Its possible that Avoidance stats make a come back after you cap Hit and Exp, but its not established yet. That would be kind of nice if it turns out to be true, but its still up in the air.
Edited by Wrathblood on 10/4/2012 8:31 AM PDT
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100 Human Paladin
8295
Just link our scantity of battle when the DPS complain. If they're willing to listen to words, follow up with the idea that there are tanking only items (dodge/parry), DPS only items (crit) and shared items (hit/mastery/exp).

If they're still listening explain that we are only tank that uses haste.
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10 Draenei Mage
580
When will DPS learn that I LOVE MY MASTERY??
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90 Draenei Paladin
11260
To reference another poster: the reason people don't use SoI is the same reason people don't spec Blood Craze. Its healing is miniscule, barely noticeable, does not change the way your healers heal you


You obviously haven't tried SOI lately. It's healing is bananas insane right now.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Seal of Insight info

Its a 15ppm seal and will proc on 65% of attacks.

When it procs with high mastery you can get around a 32k heal (~7% of your hp) per proc

We make about 51 attacks in 60 seconds on average so it procs every

0.65procs/attack*51attacks/60seconds=0.5525 procs/second or 1.81seconds per proc.

0.5525procs/second*32k heal=17680hps or about 5% of your total hp every second.

Once again seal of insight is bugged where HotR splash damage procs the seal as well. Making it great for tanking LOTS of mobs.
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