World of Warcraft®

A warlock that specializes in demons loses DPS when they choose a talent that sacrifices their demon? Stop the presses!

my current felguard: hp 78,504 damage:6826-6827 dps 3750 attack power 35.343.

wrathguard hp: 98,130. damage: 5460-5461 dps:3,000 attack power 23,559

suprem grimoire says these demons do 20% more damage. check every other pet. each one their dps goes up, not down. it is why demon and checking noxxic is using service grim right now

Who are these people?

I kind of feel this thread is a bit subjective.

I have to say, i experince the exact opposite of what you are saying...

ADMITTLY! I am only 84, maybe it will change at 90, but for example, I was doing 4K in stone core reg, with the wrathgaurd, I switched to GRoSac and I jumped 7k.

My rotation is Corupt first, then Shadow bolt the daylights out of everything, Keeping Hand of guldan firing off cool down and soul fire when ever MC procs. Then for bosses or extreme AOE i fire off Dark soul and then Demon form.

Yeah, that's a scaling issue. At 85, I had a gain from Sacrifice too namely because of the bursty nature of it. Sustained though, it's a loss.

well Then i will save my opinions till once I hit 90.

@ Versuvian

I do not know how trustworthy your advice is you are using Glyph of Burning embers as demo...

Umm i swap between demo and destro often? Doesn't take a genius to think of that....

That being said for heroics its definately GoSup due to most fights having cleave which pushes the wrathguard far ahead.

In raids though its debatable, some fights favor one over the other.

For those of you that want a reference - http://www.icy-veins.com/demonology-warlock-wow-pve-dps-spec-builds-talents-glyphs

which is why as well having 2 felguards using bladestorm is very nasty

I understand that, yes, our mastery benefits our pet. Yes, the name of the spec implied that it's all about the pet. I get that. However, NO talent should be a dps LOSS. This goes completely against the model Blizzard is going for.

With Grimlore of Sacrifice, with a pet I do 36k dps on a training dummy consistantly.

USING my talent, I do 32k dps. I actually am HURT by my talent choices. It needs to be buffed to be at the very least on par with having a pet out; as is, it literally hurts your damage output.

lmao seriously? Know your spec and how you need to be specced not everything should be the same or on par hence the reason for multiple talents cry more.

...I don't even know, man.

You're thinking of the old talents. The old talents were boring old "increase damage by 1-5%, and not change anything about your class!".

Now, you have -choice-! And you can make bad choices! Like, really, really bad choices!

I am super against grim of sac in the first place, because what the hell, take away one of the cornerstones of the lock class to...what? Turn aff into an spriest? Turn destro into a fire mage?

Pet management is part of the identity of the class. That being said, saying a talent that takes away your pet shouldn't be bad for a class that depends on its pet, has a UNIQUE SPECIALIZATION PET, a mastery that buffs your pet, is like saying that since hunters have the choice to use a melee weapon, they should do as much dps as they do with their ranged skills.

I'm pretty sure Grimiore of Service does the most DPS for Demo - from a PvE stand point.

10/01/2012 05:09 PMPosted by Mjrpaine

I'm pretty sure Grimiore of Service does the most DPS for Demo - from a PvE stand point.

I know what the best choice is. What I'm saying is that this talent is actually a /loss/ - as in, you do better damage without having chosen anything. It's a pointless death trap for Demonology warlocks and it should be buffed to be at least on par with a pet.

Can't have it all.

It's 30% more damage from shadow bolt, fel imps, soul fire, hand of gul'dan and stuff like that. Not 50%. My demon form is a lot more fierce, but the build up is so bad that it's a net loss.

NO TALENT SHOULD MAKE YOU PERFORM WORSE THAN IF YOU HAD NO TALENT

You're also losing the DF generated by your pet, which is a large part of the problem.

10/01/2012 04:17 PMPosted by Secrets

Pet management is part of the identity of the class. That being said, saying a talent that takes away your pet shouldn't be bad for a class that depends on its pet, has a UNIQUE SPECIALIZATION PET, a mastery that buffs your pet, is like saying that since hunters have the choice to use a melee weapon, they should do as much dps as they do with their ranged skills.

"Pet management"? In PvE, that amounts to almost nothing. Instead, we deal with (or used to) issues on fights Alysrazor, Al'akir, and Nefarion because pets are stupid. The ability to kill our minions is awesome.

why dont u just chose a different talent?

I understand that, yes, our mastery benefits our pet. Yes, the name of the spec implied that it's all about the pet. I get that. However, NO talent should be a dps LOSS. This goes completely against the model Blizzard is going for.

With Grimlore of Sacrifice, with a pet I do 36k dps on a training dummy consistantly.

USING my talent, I do 32k dps. I actually am HURT by my talent choices. It needs to be buffed to be at the very least on par with having a pet out; as is, it literally hurts your damage output.

Noted, in sims so far

The extra fury from our primary pet is probably the difference.

ADMITTLY! I am only 84, maybe it will change at 90, but for example, I was doing 4K in stone core reg, with the wrathgaurd, I switched to GRoSac and I jumped 7k.

I think I found where the discrepancy lies. One of the main reasons to have a demon out as demo is for the extra fury gen, which increases meta uptime, which is going to be your biggest source of damage. In a lower level regular 5-man, however, stuff dies so fast that meta uptime takes a back seat to the overall damage increase from Sacrifice.

I imagine that, as you level and dungeon mobs start getting tougher and living longer, you'll start to see a shift from GoSac to either Service or Supremacy.

10/01/2012 03:28 PMPosted by Avime

Well first off Aff grim sac is a 50% boost,

To only: MG and DS channels. Your DoT damage itself doesn't change.

...I don't even know, man.

You're thinking of the old talents. The old talents were boring old "increase damage by 1-5%, and not change anything about your class!".

Now, you have -choice-! And you can make bad choices! Like, really, really bad choices!

I am super against grim of sac in the first place, because what the hell, take away one of the cornerstones of the lock class to...what? Turn aff into an spriest? Turn destro into a fire mage?

Pet management is part of the identity of the class. That being said, saying a talent that takes away your pet shouldn't be bad for a class that depends on its pet, has a UNIQUE SPECIALIZATION PET, a mastery that buffs your pet, is like saying that since hunters have the choice to use a melee weapon, they should do as much dps as they do with their ranged skills.

Eh I disagree locks have always been able to sac pets for buffs, and you still had the ability to resummon its not like OMG WE LOST OUR PETS FOR EVER.

If you raided back in the BC days there was an SB sac build alot of locks used when raiding BT.

@ Pastorcrick

Yeah I hit 85 and the world changed. i am using Supremacy right now. World of difference. Like retardly different.

Shrug. I like pets.

However, losing a pet for demo makes sense that it would suck >.<

Its kind of like the fact that the dark soul glyph can be a dps loss (and it generally is if you are using dark soul on cd, especially so once you get t14 4pc), the extended dot duration glyph is a dps loss in pve, etc.

Nowhere in grim of sac does it say it has to be a dps increase.

It tells you you kill your pet. Its up to you to decide whether 50% increase on a few skills is worth it.

It doesn't need a buff, its like trying to play bm hunter with a pet sac talent and trying to figure out why your dps is worse.