Any monks feeling a bit squishy?

90 Pandaren Monk
9220
I rolled a monk currently at 458 Ilvl healers are saying I am a bit squishy curious if any one else is having a similar observation
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90 Pandaren Monk
12900
Doing it wrong.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
What points, exactly, are you squishy on? Are you making use of your Gift of the Ox procs? How often are you Purifying? Are you keeping some Chi on reserve for an emergency Guard or energy for an emergency Expel Harm, or are you spending it the instant you get it?

I don't have the wealth of experience a lot of the theorycrafters from beta have had, but I've been having great success with opening with Keg Smash -> Guard on AoE packs, then transitioning to Jab -> Blackout Kick, Jab, Tiger Palm, Expel Harm, moving into a Leg Sweep and Elusive Brew (by this time I have decent stacks) and Purifying as necessary. By the time EB runs out I'm ready to Guard again, which is godly against trash.

Single target is simply a matter of keeping Stagger up and monitoring my resources to be able to use emergency abilities as necessary.

I want to try glyphed Guard with Zen Sphere up, since Zen Sphere seems to nullify a lot of Light Stagger and Moderate Stagger damage while up even without it.

How squishy Monk is depends entirely, 100% on how you play. I think I'd like to see some middle ground as you KNOW when a monk's not being played properly, but it can be done.
Edited by Rijdot on 9/28/2012 3:02 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
9280
I was in the same boat, but changed up my strategy and it's helped a bit.

Are you trying to keep up your self heal? I've dumped Zen Sphere from my rotation in most cases. We simply do not have the resources for it. Just use Guard, Brews, and Blackout Kick with ur Chi.

Also, we rely on our healing orbs so make sure you're picking em up when taking a decent amount of damage. This will help a lot. Get used to running back and forth a little bit.

While most of the guides say you don't have to worry about Purifying Brew until yellow/red, I found myself rarely getting it to yellow and NEVER red. I purify every 10 or so seconds regardless of it's strength otherwise you're taking the entire damage just spread over time anyways. It's arguably easier to heal as a predictable dot, but just because you don't see it go yellow/red doesn't mean that you shouldn't purify. If you're not you're essentially wasting your entire mastery.

I'm no pro monk by any means, I've only played one since Tuesday, these are just some things I've observed over the last few days.

Just worry about managing BoK, Guard, and Elusive Brew while Purifying every 10 or so seconds. If you're still dying it's most likely the healers fault ;)
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90 Pandaren Monk
9220
Maybe I am using guard and and EB too proactivily. If my stagger gets to yellow I drop pretty quick but normally thats not an issue.

I was just curious what other people were seeing in comparison to wars/pallys/druid/dks.
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09/28/2012 02:36 PMPosted by Bromaster
Doing it wrong.


easy to say at 48, dude. Damage ramps up in a hurry starting with outland.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Doing it wrong.


easy to say at 48, dude. Damage ramps up in a hurry starting with outland.


Which is why proper play becomes so important.

His level doesn't matter. If you're going squish, you're doing it wrong. That much is true.

I do wish monks didn't have such a heavy weakness against stunning/CCing mobs though. It's INCREDIBLY frustrating to be just about to refresh your BK or Guard and get hit with a 5-7 second stun that just about destroys you. And there's a lot of mobs that do that in comparison to Cata, I'm noticing.
Edited by Rijdot on 9/29/2012 12:32 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
0
Stuns are a huge issue. Our active mitigation is reliant upon us being active. Refreshing shuffle or using purifying brew being the most important, along with guard, expel harm, keg smash and our very limited cc.. none of these abilities can be used during a stun. By far stuns are the most common reason for a death during trash in dungeons, and honestly the trash is more lethal than most bosses. big cd's and foresight are key imo when it comes to the heroics.

Unfortunately we are squishy above all tanks, especially at the start of a pull. The ramp up time for our mitigation is beyond that of other tanks. The only thing i can suggest at this point is to take the lvl 45 talent Chi Brew and use it wisely b4 pulls with large trash packs.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6290
I been leveling brewmaster the whole way, in the beginning my mitigation didn't matter. Now its important. That being said I would say get guard up soon, BoK soon and elusive once it gets to 10+ stacks (every time). Guard scales with AP, so it will be more powerful once vengeance stacks up and then once guard is up your expel harm / spheres heal for more. Purifying every 10 seconds regardless of stacks will even out your damage taken but may cause a waste of cool down if you start getting hit harder/faster and don't have it available. Its a juggle that requires a bit to get in the grove of doing. Lastly it requires healers to understand Monk mechanics and that you are squishy on the beginning of your pull. My wife plays the healer I run with and now that she has figured that out she finds healing me much easier than my other tanks. Take all that with a grain of salt though because I'm not at the 90 level.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10940
09/30/2012 05:01 AMPosted by Soysauce
Stuns are a huge issue.


This. I remember being so panicked in BETA the first time I did Mogushan because of all the stuns. Gekkan + skulker really was a shock the first time around.

Other than that, it's all manageable.
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09/29/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Rijdot


easy to say at 48, dude. Damage ramps up in a hurry starting with outland.


Which is why proper play becomes so important.

His level doesn't matter. If you're going squish, you're doing it wrong. That much is true.

I do wish monks didn't have such a heavy weakness against stunning/CCing mobs though. It's INCREDIBLY frustrating to be just about to refresh your BK or Guard and get hit with a 5-7 second stun that just about destroys you. And there's a lot of mobs that do that in comparison to Cata, I'm noticing.


he said he felt a little squishy, not that he dies instantly.
This would be a resonable thing to say if, say, he died in a stun lock.. and yes, getting stunned is a big issue for brewmasters, as my fellows have said. No Shuffle or Guard = i'm suddenly a rogue trying to tank.
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Just a suggestion. Don't wait for Power Guard buff on initial Pull.

Keg Smash then Guard. I open up with this on every pull possible and things go smoother.
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90 Dwarf Monk
19140
09/30/2012 08:34 PMPosted by Seunki
Stuns are a huge issue.


This. I remember being so panicked in BETA the first time I did Mogushan because of all the stuns. Gekkan + skulker really was a shock the first time around.

Other than that, it's all manageable.


Skulker stuns are avoidable by outranging. Just focus it and watch the castbar, and take 2-3 steps back.

I've taken to purifying any time stagger has over ~60k if I can afford the chi. It's been working fairly well for me so far.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Just a suggestion. Don't wait for Power Guard buff on initial Pull.

Keg Smash then Guard. I open up with this on every pull possible and things go smoother.


I've also found this to be immensely helpful. On AoE pulls I'll usually throw a Dizzying Haze or two then follow up with KS -> Guard.

And the moving while tanking thing for Gift of the Ox was something I had to get used to. GotO procs pretty frequently and if you don't make use of it you're going to feel it.
Edited by Rijdot on 10/2/2012 12:31 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
4585
Just a suggestion. Don't wait for Power Guard buff on initial Pull.

Keg Smash then Guard. I open up with this on every pull possible and things go smoother.


*takes notes*
Chi brew
Keg smash
Guard
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90 Human Monk
6425
Just a suggestion. Don't wait for Power Guard buff on initial Pull.

Keg Smash then Guard. I open up with this on every pull possible and things go smoother.


*takes notes*
Chi brew
Keg smash
Guard


Thats all wrong. It should be Keg Smash > BK > Guard.

You definately need the Parry buff from the BK to be active ALL THE TIME.

I think the reason that other classes find Monks to be squisy is because some Monks do not start out with BK.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
Just a suggestion. Don't wait for Power Guard buff on initial Pull.

Keg Smash then Guard. I open up with this on every pull possible and things go smoother.


*takes notes*
Chi brew
Keg smash
Guard


Chi brew isn't completely necessary either. I've found the extra chi from Power Strikes to be far more helpful. Guard should last long enough, at least on trash, for you to get 2, possibly even 3 Blackout Kicks in with Power Strikes with KS -> Guard -> Jab -> BK -> Expel Harm -> Jab -> BK. In fact at early levels one Guard, especially with Power Guard, can last you entire trash packs.
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90 Pandaren Monk
4585
Actually, that's just what I've been finding out in these last few levels. Ofcourse that was 5 hours ago and I've had time to completely re-theorycraft my rotation. I can foresee a buff (just 1-3 seconds) coming to shuffle. Perhaps a passive added to ox stance that reduces the time we are affected by stuns or cc. Since all of our mitigation and avoidance is active, any stun renders us as a rogue with all the aggro.

EDIT: The only problem I see with BK before Guard is some mobs in packs like to stun right off the bat, before you can get off a BK, leaving you as a punching bag. This has happened to me a few times already.
Edited by Chéng on 10/2/2012 6:36 PM PDT
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85 Goblin Shaman
3885
I'm a 90 brewmaster Yes we are squishy the reason is. lets face it we arn't tanks having to use skills to make us tanks is never going to work any slight lag, stuns or anything that leaves you with no control of your character and your screwed.

Please don't come in here telling people the class is fine if your under 80 you have no clue dps can tank dungeons at those levels.

I have pve healed and tanked since wow came out i know my stuff and this spec has no place in dungeons or raids.

Lets recap, We have to actively use skills to bring us up to a normal tank just standing there with no shield or nothing then we have to use even more skills to bring us up to them having shields and stuff. so we have to work 10 times as hard just to keep up with tanks that have natural mitigation
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