Any monks feeling a bit squishy?

90 Human Warrior
11900
At lower levels, guard will mitigate a significant amount of damage to a point where you really do not need a healer even when chain pulling.
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90 Troll Druid
0
I've healed monk tanks before that don't seem squishy at all. And then I heal monk tanks who are all about teh deeps and are the squishiest tanks of all.

Please use Purifying Brew. Please. Often. Yes, even if your stagger is showing green. It is a huge difference.

Yes, setting all the enemies on fire is sweet, but Purifying Brew only costs one Chi, you can do both. If you must, just get in the habit of using it after every Keg Smash or something, you'll still have Chi to do other things easy.
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I have tanked the first 2 Mop dungeons in full greens with crappy low level cata trinkets and I did not even have one scary moment. A balance of defensive and offensive chi spending kept my damage high and my damage taken low. I like it.

Getting stunned is a bit scary. Then again it should be scary or whats the point of a stun.
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90 Pandaren Monk
3160
Brewmasters have lots of passive and active heals which should make up for the squishiness.
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10/03/2012 02:43 AMPosted by Shamantical
I have pve healed and tanked since wow came out i know my stuff and this spec has no place in dungeons or raids.


You're an LFR Hero® and have no idea what you're talking about.
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85 Goblin Shaman
3885
10/03/2012 03:08 PMPosted by Bromaster
I have pve healed and tanked since wow came out i know my stuff and this spec has no place in dungeons or raids.


You're an LFR Hero® and have no idea what you're talking about.


your not even 90 and have no clue.

ive actually tanked at 90 you havnt so please stay out of the convo
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few quality of life changes, breath of fire causing shuffle or black out kick causing shuffle to last longer, and a spell that pulls our healing orbs into us that could be an optional glyph or something, strafing letft and right is an incredibly unfun mechanic to base survivability on, id much rather use actual spells
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10/03/2012 08:33 PMPosted by Shamantical
your not even 90 and have no clue.


You're an 85 Shaman, I fail to see your point.
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10/03/2012 08:44 PMPosted by Kegtoss
few quality of life changes, breath of fire causing shuffle or black out kick causing shuffle to last longer, and a spell that pulls our healing orbs into us that could be an optional glyph or something, strafing letft and right is an incredibly unfun mechanic to base survivability on, id much rather use actual spells


If BoF caused Shuffle, noobs would just spam that every 2 Chi. It's a skilled class to play, you need to balance survival with AOE damage, not just face roll.

Strafing to pick up healing orbs means you pick them up when you want to, not when the game thinks you should. It's a good design (borrowed from Diablo 3).
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90 Pandaren Monk
15630
just clearing up some wrong info in here:

1) KS -> Guard while might sound cool (or work on several situations) is far from optimal. You'll use guard with zero vengeance buff from AP or 15% modifier from Tiger Pams.

Guard AP modifier is 1.971.

By the start of the fight you'll have whooping 20k AP give or take. Thats a ~53k guard.

With vengeance, your ap goes to up 40k + 15% increase from tiger palms gets you a ~139k guard.

Even with 30k AP (which is fairly easy to get) + 15% buff your guard already jumps to 110k.

Using Guard right of the bat is just bad. Unless somehow you think ~50kish absorb shields are better than 110-140k absorb shields.

2) the safest way to open any fight is:

KS -> BoK for single target.
KS -> RJW for aoe packs.

It increases your parry by 20% and reduces the upfront dmg you take by further 20% (with passive ox stance + 5% mastery everyone have even with low gear) pushing it to 45% passive reduction that will be converted into stagger dots.

That will lower the dmg income WAY more than a crappy 50k absorb shield.

3) Glyphed Guard + Zen Sphere I honestly never tried. While the premise is sound, the resources availables just don't let you do that.

we are talking about 4 chi every 30 sec when we usually "produce" about 12 chi in that timeframe. Which 8-10 of them will go to Shuffle and 2 or more to PB.

Sacrificing Shuffle to do that guard+ZS combo is a nono.

4) Stagger dmg is only relevant after yellow. It's pretty much like this:
- never cleanse green stagger or bother with it. I even turned the tracking of on my addon.
- yellow stagger is cleansed if possible (aka, you won't sacrifice shuffle to cleanse it)
- Red stagger is a little more urgent and should be cleared asap. If that means skipping Shuffle for 3-5seconds, burn Elusive brew (even if you have few stacks) to compensate.

5) the best way of using elusive brew is:

a) on small 5-8 second bursts. Have 5 charges? use it (unless you are fighting something so pathetic that it's overkill to have extra dodge).

b) higher stacks due to specific moments of burst dmg from enemies (boss phases, etc etc).

c) never wait for 15 stacks to use it. You should be able to use ~5stacks every 15-20 sec depending on how often you crit.

6) Danpem Harm > Diffuse magic in 99% of the situations.

7) even though Breath of Fire glyph is a little bugged atm (it breaks on it's own dmg) .. it's very interesting to have.

8) Gift of the Ox orbs (the small green orbs you spawn that heal you) heal you considering your current AP when you collect them. So if you are taking high dmg, your vengeance is automatically high, and they'll heal for more.

One good way of using them is wait for 3-6 spawn close to you, if you dip bellow 50% hp you quickly strafe and catch them all. Usually it will heal you to full.
Edited by Leeflow on 10/4/2012 2:53 PM PDT
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90 Human Monk
6390
10/04/2012 02:16 PMPosted by Bromaster
your not even 90 and have no clue.


You're an 85 Shaman, I fail to see your point.


there you go replying back on my 90 monk again you know nothing

Ive started leveling a dk and already i can see the huge difference I'm only level 87 and
i can tank things my monk had troubles with.

Before you go and say l2p or you sux at monk have a look at the way it tanks
to make it as good as other tanks standing there doing nothing u have to use 2+ abilities

you take far to much spike damage and relying on chi all the time to remove this or do this
when ever your without chi ur screwed where as other tanks dont need to do anything
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rushing jade wind needs to be basline, or breath of fire needs shuffle
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76 Human Monk
6980
Just a suggestion. Don't wait for Power Guard buff on initial Pull.

Keg Smash then Guard. I open up with this on every pull possible and things go smoother.


It's the strategy I'm using... Just for the first guard, then when you're properly guarded and shuffled, you can invest in tiger power to get the next guards better.
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90 Pandaren Monk
12330
Just curious, the people arguing for and against guard before blackout kick... does anyone have the glyph for guard?
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90 Dwarf Monk
19140
I find if initial incoming damage is so high, pulling with a CD up or leg sweeping immediately is a better option than blowing an unbuffed/zero vengeance guard.
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90 Human Warrior
11900
@lv90, I use my purifying brew in heroics when stagger stacks up to around 40k. Guard I use as more of an emergency button. I much rather smoothen out my damage further than to take no damage at all for 2 seconds.

I like to pull with my statue: it is durable enough to soak the first hit from mobs while I land that KS and set up shuffle with BK.

Much of a monk's mitigation is tied in with shuffle: if you find yourself taking heavy spikes... then chances is that you don't have shuffle up.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15630
Toss kegs, pick the furthest target, use clash on him.

He'll be pulled to the middle of the group and stun everyone in the process. Keg smash, Breath of fire (people will still be stuned), Jab with power strikes, RJW to get shuffle ..

go from there.

Loot corpses.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHLs5qzKjTk&t=4m03s
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I would agree with you that it is best to wait to use guard until you have the power guard buff combined with a hefty amount of vengeance built up if.....the cooldown was 3 mins.

Being that the cooldown is 30 seconds, throwing up guard initially as a soaker is perfectly acceptable.

Myself, and the healers I run with can definitely tell the difference on pack pulls when I do and don't use guard initially.
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90 Pandaren Monk
15630
be my guest.

People can play any way they want.

I'm just pointing out the best way of doing it. Trust me, I tried every possible angle of the spec on beta. I'm kinda playing it since the 1st night that the beta opened =D.

If he's feeling squishy, he's doing something wrong. Because I'm tanking raid bosses and challenge modes without breaking a sweat.

DH -> Clash -> Keg Smash -> RJW -> BoF provides you the highest burst aoe threat possible, with the highest survivability (preventing mobs from reacting is better than using weak cooldowns).

Like Sparkle mentioned, Leg sweep (and Elusive brew) in between will also help a lot.

Opening with guard is working for you? go for it. It's simply suboptimal. Guard without any modifier absorb 50-60k .. it's pathetic. Even on heroic there are several mobs that will break that in 2 auto attacks at most.

So yeh, i'm simply pointing out the best route .. if the op wanna use the gheto-route .. it's up to him.
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