Squishy Brewmasters.

90 Tauren Paladin
9800
Any particular reason why Stance of the Ox doesn't increase armor contribution? It seems that when they can't stagger an attack they get SMASHED, and I'm really confused as to why this is the way it is.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10280
10/02/2012 06:58 AMPosted by Dawnhoof
It seems that when they can't stagger an attack they get SMASHED, and I'm really confused as to why this is the way it is.


That is the key. It is active mitigation. As long as you keep shuffle/guard up, walk over your healing spheres, etc, a monk tank will be as affective as any other tank.

Just a different set of tasks these days.
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90 Tauren Paladin
9800
10/02/2012 07:01 AMPosted by Chuin
It seems that when they can't stagger an attack they get SMASHED, and I'm really confused as to why this is the way it is.


That is the key. It is active mitigation. As long as you keep shuffle/guard up, walk over your healing spheres, etc, a monk tank will be as affective as any other tank.

Just a different set of tasks these days.


I understand active mitigation, but it doesn't do a whole lot of good while stunned or feared when you take full hits from everything. It's just obvious that brewmasters take much more damage than other tanks, and I'm pretty sure more armor would even it out.
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90 Gnome Monk
2215
You still have 25 % damage reduction 20 % increase parry chance from blackout kick and dodge chance increase from elusive brew (even though you need timing due to short duration) as well as guard that can absorb damage with 30 second cooldown

You can also use expel harm without cooldown whenever you are below 35 % of your maximum health and clash to stun your enemies in tough situation
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90 Human Monk
13690
You still have 25 % damage reduction 20 % increase parry chance from blackout kick and dodge chance increase from elusive brew (even though you need timing due to short duration) as well as guard that can absorb damage with 30 second cooldown

You can also use expel harm without cooldown whenever you are below 35 % of your maximum health and clash to stun your enemies in tough situation


You cannot parry while stunned and I do actually agree brewmasters are at a distinct disadvantage while stunned. I have definitely noticed this when trying pvp
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90 Tauren Paladin
9800
You still have 25 % damage reduction 20 % increase parry chance from blackout kick and dodge chance increase from elusive brew (even though you need timing due to short duration) as well as guard that can absorb damage with 30 second cooldown

You can also use expel harm without cooldown whenever you are below 35 % of your maximum health and clash to stun your enemies in tough situation


Like I said before, active mitigation is great and all but when you CAN'T mitigate damage you are forced to take full blows. This is very bad for a tank.
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So far, if I get fully buffed Guard up and use Shuffle when possible I don't think I have been close of dying. Healing spheres could use some tweaking..seems to me that I have to walk right on top of them to get the heal but otherwise I have had easy going.

I noticed that I wasn't using Blackout Kick enough and took a mental note of it and it has helped a lot. You just need to use your heals & CDs during the Guard CD (remember you can actually drop the healing spheres if you need to:)
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90 Blood Elf Monk
2335
And it happens with every tank. Which is why stuns are at a short duration.
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100 Pandaren Monk
12255
What I don't get is that, you have to actively mitigate things, as well as move around. Typically you don't WANT TO MOVE DURING A BOSS FIGHT, as it can mean that you kill someone else. This is pretty bad design in that regards.

I don't like the fact that most BrM's have like 380k, while I've seen other tanks sitting on approximately 400k+ HP. Stagger is cool, but man that is just so much hp to be losing. You have to hope that you are able to keep your Stagger cleared, or BrM's will be taking way more damage than other tanks.
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
10/02/2012 07:39 AMPosted by
And it happens with every tank. Which is why stuns are at a short duration.


I think his issue is that monks have lower armor, so when they do get stunned they tend to get chopped harder than normal. I personally think monk armor is a bit low as well, but its nothing to shed tears over :P

10/02/2012 08:18 AMPosted by Drayonk
Typically you don't WANT TO MOVE DURING A BOSS FIGHT, as it can mean that you kill someone else


how? a 1s strafe to collect an orb is going to kill someone? :P
Edited by Advanced on 10/2/2012 8:52 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Monk
9145
If I recall correctly, the passive 25% damage reduction from Stance of the Sexy Ox is significantly more than other tank passives, and thus negates the need for a higher armor rating.

Additionally, we definitely suffer from getting stunned, but we have the benefit of being able to stagger a huge portion of damage (i.e. our block mechanic) WHILE STUNNED if we're sure to keep Shuffle up. This is something no other tank can do =]. Sure, you'll need to purify the heck out of it when you're free again, but if you don't like having to micromanage your defenses you're playing the wrong tank.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
2335
If I recall correctly, the passive 25% damage reduction from Stance of the Sexy Ox is significantly more than other tank passives, and thus negates the need for a higher armor rating.

Additionally, we definitely suffer from getting stunned, but we have the benefit of being able to stagger a huge portion of damage (i.e. our block mechanic) WHILE STUNNED if we're sure to keep Shuffle up. This is something no other tank can do =]. Sure, you'll need to purify the heck out of it when you're free again, but if you don't like having to micromanage your defenses you're playing the wrong tank.


Is you Kraylis? :P
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90 Pandaren Monk
9145


Is you Kraylis? :P


MAYBE. Yes.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
2335


Is you Kraylis? :P


MAYBE. Yes.


/waves

<-- Vaelryn. That silly ol' DK that used to make his home on Wyrmrest.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9145
Ohhhh sup man, yeah I do monky things now. Monkying around, etc. Nice to see a familar face!

To continue to be productive here, I did a quick comparison using a couple similarly geared tanks. The first is Brewmaster Qi, who is a silly seahorse.

Armor Reduction: 25.99%
Stance Reduction: 25%
Total Physical Reduction: 50.99%

The second is a Blood Tank I know: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/wyrmrest-accord/mallous/advanced
Armor Reduction: 39.88%
Stance Reduction: 10%
Total Physical Reduction: 49.88%

Looks to be that we do indeed take about the same amount of unmitigated physical damage as Blood DKs, and I'd bet my fist weapons that the other tanks are about the same.
Edited by Krayai on 10/2/2012 9:07 AM PDT
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90 Human Monk
13690
actually dk tanks are considered the spikiest by healers I have definitely noticed while stunned I am squishy as hell that may be because I only have contender gear though so I will wait to determine on that.
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85 Pandaren Monk
7965
We can actually compensate pretty handily for damage taken while stunned. Even while stunned we keep Stagger running, so if we have the additional Stagger from Blackout Kick running we're still mitigating a decent chunk of the damage.

But yes, if you're slacking on keeping that buff active, you drop like a stone.

It's not that different from other tanks honestly. Any stunned tank takes a lot of damage. Warriors and paladins may have plate and a shield to mitigate, but warrior mitigation revolves around blocking (which they can't do when stunned) and paladin mitigation is based around building holy power for SHoR (which they can't do when stunned). They also get much less passive damage reduction because of said plate and shield.
Edited by Jienya on 10/2/2012 9:42 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Monk
13690
It just seems to me they went way over the top with Brewmaster Active mitigation. They took the dk model, put it on steriods. Meanwhile, Paladin and druid remain easy mode afk brb when fight is over guys.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
2335
10/02/2012 09:41 AMPosted by Wrongfu
It just seems to me they went way over the top with Brewmaster Active mitigation. They took the dk model, put it on steriods. Meanwhile, Paladin and druid remain easy mode afk brb when fight is over guys.


If that's what matters to you, then by all means play a paladin. the BM tanking model isn't for everyone, but those who do play it find it enjoyable, like myself.

There could be a few QoL improvements made to BM but it's not broken by any means.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Armor Reduction: 25.99%
Stance Reduction: 25%
Total Physical Reduction: 50.99%

The second is a Blood Tank I know: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/wyrmrest-accord/mallous/advanced
Armor Reduction: 39.88%
Stance Reduction: 10%
Total Physical Reduction: 49.88%


>Adding reductions together

Thats not how damage reductions work

Not that it makes a huge difference, but in your given numbers above, the total DR a monk would get is roughly 44.5% while the DK would get 46%. If DRs were additive like you suggest, you could hit 100% DR (ie: take no damage) with damage mitigation abilities active.

In any event, the numbers do come out similar and yes you are correct that this is why Ox gives a fairly high -% damage reduction as compared to other tanks. Monks dont need more armor
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