Seasoned PVE Rogues I welcome your reply !!!!

90 Goblin Rogue
10375
I have been rogueing it up now for over 5 years and this is the first expantion I have played where I am not even hitting number 2 on DPS when playing with competent people. I know energy regen is terrible right now and I contribute alot to that but, I am pretty sure blizz just made our class terrible and once again pulled no numbers in. Stand still fights I am pulling between 32k and 47k which is a huge disparity considering the new blizz motto of not favoring casters, Most fights are caster optimal once again. On sha of Anger I put up 53k but I was in all greens with a few blues. Just wondering if you guys are having similar issues. Also I will post in this thread later after tonights clear of the newly opened raid.
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90 Human Rogue
10910
Did sha last night. First place was a tank monk, second and third was me and another rogue. I wasn't even reforged for raid boss hit/exp.
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89 Undead Rogue
6880
Quite frankly your first problem is that you are combat. Mutilate is outperforming combat by quite a lot at the moment. I have not yet leveled my rogue to 90 but I know in cata (right after the final patch before MoP) that mutilate rogues were pulling much more than combat. Give mutilate a whirl and get daggers. Another thing that happened (at least from what I have seen in sims) is that rogues damage got nerfed fairly hard and are in the bottom range of dps at the moment.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
13325
10/02/2012 07:30 AMPosted by Umbriodrago
Quite frankly your first problem is that you are combat. Mutilate is outperforming combat by quite a lot at the moment. I have not yet leveled my rogue to 90 but I know in cata (right after the final patch before MoP) that mutilate rogues were pulling much more than combat. Give mutilate a whirl and get daggers. Another thing that happened (at least from what I have seen in sims) is that rogues damage got nerfed fairly hard and are in the bottom range of dps at the moment.


its doing well at 85, not 90 nessisarily. Energy regen is too bad, and I have a feeling when we get better energy regen, assasination will be op once again, atm , Sub is probably the way to go, but still, not by much
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90 Human Rogue
10910
10/02/2012 07:30 AMPosted by Umbriodrago
Quite frankly your first problem is that you are combat. Mutilate is outperforming combat by quite a lot at the moment. I have not yet leveled my rogue to 90 but I know in cata (right after the final patch before MoP) that mutilate rogues were pulling much more than combat. Give mutilate a whirl and get daggers. Another thing that happened (at least from what I have seen in sims) is that rogues damage got nerfed fairly hard and are in the bottom range of dps at the moment.


Actually at level 90 the spec is combat for the moment. If you look at any of the top rogues in top guilds they are all running combat at this point. The first boss in vaults its also a cleave fight.

10/02/2012 07:43 AMPosted by Romrin
its doing well at 85, not 90 nessisarily. Energy regen is too bad, and I have a feeling when we get better energy regen, assasination will be op once again, atm , Sub is probably the way to go, but still, not by much


Pretty much the entire reason assas was so OP at 85 was because of how quickly it procced fury. With no legendary at 90 it is under performing at the moment.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
10400
Three scattered points:

1) Ghostcrawler has said that Blizzard's internal testing suggests that all specs are pretty close to one another in terms of DPS potential at level 90.

2) Rogues were roughly middle-of-the-road in terms of their relative DPS at the start of Cataclysm. It's not ridiculous for us to be in the same position now.

3) It doesn't surprise me to hear that competitive PvE rogues are going Combat right now. It's easily the most versatile spec; as Ninja noted, there are a few fights in the new raid tier that will clearly favor it; and there's no clear winner yet as to which spec is superior against a single target (plus see point #1 above). So it's a pretty logical choice at this point, especially given how many more 2.6-speed agility weapons are out there compared to the number of daggers.
Edited by Rfeann on 10/2/2012 8:05 AM PDT
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90 Troll Rogue
8495
Sub > Combat and Mutilate.

Unless it's a cleave fight of course.

Nuff said.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
10400
10/02/2012 08:22 AMPosted by Hayturr
Nuff said.

Except, if you're basing this entirely off of the SimCraft numbers, it's not nuff said, because SimCraft numbers aren't the be-all end-all of DPS potential. We don't know how up-to-date they are; we don't know how accurate they are in modeling the interplay of rogue abilities, talents, rotations and cooldowns; and we do know that SimC is limited in how it actually simulates boss fights, making it a lot less relevant for determining how well a spec will perform in the "real world" of any specific boss fight.
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90 Orc Rogue
12845
I got 4th as Combat in a 40 man Sha of Anger. The other Rogues were Sub. *shrug*
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90 Undead Rogue
12340
Got 1st in both shas I did, if you're complaining about energy regen. You must be a 4.3 hero, no way have you played a rogue for 5 years and you're complaining about energy regen LOLOLOL. To even say that is so illogical, the reason we don't have high Eregen is because gear levels aren't scaled as high as they would be in 4.3(3 tiers into the xpac). At the start of cata, it was !@#$, at start of wrath rogues were %^-*. It's you, not the class. Sorry.
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90 Pandaren Rogue
12645
10/02/2012 05:38 PMPosted by Keorics
Got 1st in both shas I did, if you're complaining about energy regen. You must be a 4.3 hero, no way have you played a rogue for 5 years and you're complaining about energy regen LOLOLOL. To even say that is so illogical, the reason we don't have high Eregen is because gear levels aren't scaled as high as they would be in 4.3(3 tiers into the xpac). At the start of cata, it was !@#$, at start of wrath rogues were %^-*. It's you, not the class. Sorry.


Quit typing like a moron and post correctly instead of insulting people.
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90 Troll Rogue
21045
Since the EP values of rogue specs have pretty well diverged this expansion until you have enough gear to build up a decent secondary set I'd be running combat. Combat cleave is one of the things rogues do really well and there are quite a few fights where you can (ab)use it. Anyone can bring single target dps but very specs can bring broken cleave damage.
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90 Pandaren Rogue
14645
10/02/2012 07:48 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
Quite frankly your first problem is that you are combat. Mutilate is outperforming combat by quite a lot at the moment. I have not yet leveled my rogue to 90 but I know in cata (right after the final patch before MoP) that mutilate rogues were pulling much more than combat. Give mutilate a whirl and get daggers. Another thing that happened (at least from what I have seen in sims) is that rogues damage got nerfed fairly hard and are in the bottom range of dps at the moment.


Actually at level 90 the spec is combat for the moment. If you look at any of the top rogues in top guilds they are all running combat at this point. The first boss in vaults its also a cleave fight.

its doing well at 85, not 90 nessisarily. Energy regen is too bad, and I have a feeling when we get better energy regen, assasination will be op once again, atm , Sub is probably the way to go, but still, not by much


Pretty much the entire reason assas was so OP at 85 was because of how quickly it procced fury. With no legendary at 90 it is under performing at the moment.


Assassination is generally better at 90, combat is just better for heroics and (by extension) challenge modes; that's why you're seeing so many people as combat. Outside of cleave-fights, combat is behind again this tier.
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90 Undead Rogue
12340
10/02/2012 05:44 PMPosted by Kiwe
Got 1st in both shas I did, if you're complaining about energy regen. You must be a 4.3 hero, no way have you played a rogue for 5 years and you're complaining about energy regen LOLOLOL. To even say that is so illogical, the reason we don't have high Eregen is because gear levels aren't scaled as high as they would be in 4.3(3 tiers into the xpac). At the start of cata, it was !@#$, at start of wrath rogues were %^-*. It's you, not the class. Sorry.


Quit typing like a moron and post correctly instead of insulting people.


Y
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90 Human Death Knight
6300
10/02/2012 05:44 PMPosted by Kiwe
Quit typing like a moron and post correctly instead of insulting people.


It's who Keorics is, ignore him like I do :D
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90 Gnome Rogue
10645
10/02/2012 06:09 PMPosted by Leitka
Outside of cleave-fights, combat is behind again this tier.

isn't that generally the case for every first tier in new xpacs?

10/02/2012 05:44 PMPosted by Kiwe
Quit typing like a moron and post correctly instead of insulting people.

Yea stop insulting people you morons!
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90 Undead Rogue
12340
10/02/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Tanner
Quit typing like a moron and post correctly instead of insulting people.


It's who Keorics is, ignore him like I do :D


OMG IM SO POPULAR!
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90 Pandaren Rogue
14645
10/02/2012 06:47 PMPosted by Tantojutsu
isn't that generally the case for every first tier in new xpacs?


That's where "again" comes into play. ;)
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90 Troll Rogue
21045
After raid tonight I'm changing my suggestion. Yes combat is dominant on cleave fights but combat is going to be dominant whether you are totally optimized for it or not. Instead optimize your gear around either sin or sub and swap to combat for the cleave fights. For my money sub is the better choice, I don't think we can say for certain which, between sin and sub is stronger and sub has stat priorities which should be reasonably friendly to combat for when you have to switch.
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90 Undead Rogue
15335
If you want to pick two specs to play switch between, then sub and combat largely have the same stat priorities. They have different stat weights but you will end up with the same reforging. If you've been raiding as a rogue for very long then it probably isn't new to you that you generally run with a combat spec for cleave fights and your other spec changes between sub and mut depending on the strength of the spec/gear/needs of the encounter. I've been pulling the highest aoe dps with sub and CT. Previously aoe was mut's niche so I'm curious how that will work out.

So far, I only played combat on the first boss because as everyone knows it is a cleave fight. I've played sub for everything else mostly because the dagger from the first boss dropped for me and sub was now the spec for me with the best MH weapon. There's too wide a distribution of gear quality between different rogues to be able to listen to one rogue say that combat did X dps and sub did Y for any of that to be taken seriously.

I will say that, so far, on some of the fights there is a lot of movement and I found myself wishing that I wasn't limited to being behind bosses or that I had mut's 120 energy so I wasn't capping energy so much with low uptime. On the other hand, it is nice with anticipation+hat to get back to a boss and have 6-7 cps to dump into a rupture which fell off while you were getting away from something. Next week I'm going to try mut for my non-combat spec and see how it feels/performs for me.
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