Compilation of Rogue Nerfs

90 Undead Rogue
5700
Here's a list of all the nerfs I could think of, feel free to add on if I missed anything.

My hope is that this post sheds some light on the situation and people can see all the changes that went through to live.

Blind CD increased from 2 to 3 mins

Vanish CD increased from 2 to 3 mins

Evasion CD increased from 2 to 3 mins

Smokebomb CD increased from 2 to 3 mins, removed from Prep

Cloak of Shadows CD increased from 1.5 mins to 2 mins, was added to Prep though.

Shiv can now be dodged and parried and has a 10 sec CD, energy cost increased to 20

Ambush +60% crit chance talent removed, overall damage of ability also reduced
Backstab +30% crit chance talent removed, overall damage of ability also reduced
Mutilate +30% crit chance talent removed, overall damage of ability also reduced

Hemorrhage no longer triggers the +16% bonus damage of Sang. Vein on your target, you must have a Rupture or Garrote bleed up at all times to receive the damage bonus

+5% crit from Honor Among Thieves is gone

+15% healing received from Fleet Footed completely removed

Crippling Poison speed reduction went from 70% to 50% (makes it more difficult to land ambush or backstab your target)

You have to choose between Deadly Throw or Combat Readiness, essentially removing one of those skills from us.

You have to choose between Preparation or Shadowstep, essentially removing one of those skills from us.

Dirty Tricks, talent which allows your Gouge to not break on bleeds was removed from sub. Was buffed so bleeds can tick during blind.

Shadow Blades is a nice ability, HOWEVER, it’s on a huge 3 min CD.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
6735
No more improved recup.
Energetic recovery moved from recup to SnD.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8275
10/02/2012 08:25 AMPosted by Creepercat
Energetic recovery moved from recup to SnD.


Wash imo.

That is a buff to PvE rogues but a nerf to PvP rogues.
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90 Undead Rogue
5700
Aren't other people just staggered by the number of nerfs?

I don't think I've seen a class this nerfed before, it is just crazy.
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Aren't other people just staggered by the number of nerfs?

I don't think I've seen a class this nerfed before, it is just crazy.


While I'm a huge advocate for any rogue changes at this point, I'd just like to remind people how unkillable we were WITH huge burst in cata.

That being said... rogues need some love right now.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
6735
Energetic recovery moved from recup to SnD.


Wash imo.

That is a buff to PvE rogues but a nerf to PvP rogues.

Actually, it's a nerf to self healing in PvE. Both Cata and MoP rogues need 3 finishers.

Cata: SnD, recup, and refresh rupture through evis.
MoP: SnD, Rupture, evis.
Edited by Creepercat on 10/2/2012 8:41 AM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
10485
I didn't understand how bad it was until i saw this post. Many of our core abilities were given higher cooldowns, we rely on cooldowns....

On top of that they gave us no more sustainable damage, and actually reduced that as well

I dont understand what your goal with rogues is

Im am really looking for a blue post

I never post on the forums but this is ridiculous, please blizz I just want some thoughts and reasoning on your rogue changes (this is mostly pvp wise, pve will be pve)
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
8325
Shiv energy didn't get increased. It cost more than 20 energy before.
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10/02/2012 08:46 AMPosted by Xiaoqing
But they were OP because of a trinket and legendary weapon.


Partially true.

In the grand scheme, we were op because of scaling. Pre-4.3 we had good mobility and great utility, and ok damage. In 4.3 our damage got obscenely high and we didn't sacrifice anything in terms of mobility or utility to acquire this damage.

Rogues in full pvp gear, with double pvp trinkets where still pretty strong compared to most other classes. Good pvp rogues with legendary's and pvp gear were just retarded.
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Sinister Strike energy cost increased by 1.
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90 Undead Rogue
3975
60 energy Ambush as an opener makes it unusable outside of Dance spam unless you're into Shadow Focus.

Implication is then that if you want to open on someone, you're activating silence or stun DR from the start. Not always a bad thing, but it removes some versatility.
Edited by Stabdu on 10/2/2012 10:42 AM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
5700
60 energy Ambush as an opener makes it unusable outside of Dance spam unless you're into Shadow Focus.

Implication is then that if you want to open on someone, you're activating silence or stun DR from the start. Not always a bad thing, but it removes some versatility.


To be fair, it's almost always best to open with CS or Garrote anyways.
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90 Undead Rogue
3975
60 energy Ambush as an opener makes it unusable outside of Dance spam unless you're into Shadow Focus.

Implication is then that if you want to open on someone, you're activating silence or stun DR from the start. Not always a bad thing, but it removes some versatility.


To be fair, it's almost always best to open with CS or Garrote anyways.


More often than not. Not always though.

EDIT: I'd argue it's increasingly less set in stone that a garrotte or cheap opener is best since we probably can't expect to open and go straight into a kill attempt successfully in MoP, but now garotte becomes as much about activating sang vein as it does about the silence since hemo won't.

It's just a clunky mess.
Edited by Stabdu on 10/2/2012 11:05 AM PDT
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90 Gnome Rogue
13035
Aren't other people just staggered by the number of nerfs?

I don't think I've seen a class this nerfed before, it is just crazy.


Dafuqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq!!!!

I guess you never played a Warrior, in Vanilla. Every patch that came out, Warriors got a nerf bat and other classes got a buff. Now it's our turn!!!
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90 Undead Rogue
5700
Aren't other people just staggered by the number of nerfs?

I don't think I've seen a class this nerfed before, it is just crazy.


Dafuqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq!!!!

I guess you never played a Warrior, in Vanilla. Every patch that came out, Warriors got a nerf bat and other classes got a buff. Now it's our turn!!!


I actually did play a Warrior for most of Vanilla, I do agree that the first half of Vanilla was rough for Warriors but after they got buffed they were insanely powerful and the best melee if you had heals on you.
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90 Human Rogue
5685
Only one of those damage changes that really matters in the end is the sanguinary veins change so long as in the end, numbers are the same.

Every class lost a lot of stuff and gained some stuff. In general, its the specs who had the highest utility that got hit the hardest, and the ones that had the least that gained the most.
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90 Undead Rogue
8650
Shiv can now be dodged and parried and has a 10 sec CD, energy cost increased to 20

Shadow Blades is a nice ability, HOWEVER, it’s on a huge 3 min CD.

These two are not nerfs.
Shiv was reworked and buffed due to the new poison mechanics so a cooldown on it is well warranted. Also with dual-slow combat becoming the preferred Combat PvP style the energy cost change was necessary.

A new ability is not a nerf, unless we're being balanced around having it up all the time, which we're not.
Edited by Kiljagen on 10/2/2012 1:24 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970

Shiv was reworked and buffed due to the new poison mechanics so a cooldown on it is well warranted.


It depends how you look at it. Most Rogues used Shiv for the on-demand snare. That was pretty much it's main use from introduction to the end of Cata. They removed that in MOP with the 10s CD. With classes still having their own special ways of removing snares outside of dispel mechanics, it hurts. Really bad. :(

I'd gladly go back to the old Shiv. While, with Leeching and Paralytic, it's pretty cool. It's not worth losing that on-demand snare.
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