What's next for the Blood Elves?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
8330
Hopefully, they go mech and released a Horde Fel Reaver on Darnassus.
That shoots Devilsaurs as missles.

And is pulled by chariot of whale sharks to get there.


First off that idea is fraking awesome.

Secondly it seems as though Lor'themar really is the only option we've got, its been more than a decade in game since the scourge sacked Quel'thalas and no heir to the throne has come forward. Kael'thas came back from dalaran, stayed long enough to rename us Blood Elves then ran off with 15% of what was left of the Blood Elves military, mages, engineers, and scholars. He left Lor'themar in charge of a badly weakened force, in occupied lands, with civilians to worry about, and limited suplies. And what does Lor'themar do?

Lor'themar belts on his sword round up a dozen or so of his best bros and launches a brutal guerrilla campaign against the undead for nearly seven years before getting any real help! Sylvanas then shows up and offers to help him get the Blood Elves into the Horde and the Blood Elves retake most of the Kingdom. So we can infer that Lor'themar is a total badass.

He hasn't done much in lore yes, but according to notes I've seen in regards to patch 5.1 he will finally get into the story properly. His limited invovlement is actually a fact that has helped him in lore. Nobody knows his opinion on Garrosh or the war, and that scares Garrosh.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5360
Why does there have to be a queen? Why a Sunstrider? The biggest weakness in your arguments Elenie is that it's been at least ten years of no sign of any Sunstrider. What were they doing in the year after the Sunwell was corrupted and destroyed and before the Blood elves joined the Horde? That considerably weakens any claim the heir might have. And it smacks of Blizzard's hand waving retcons (Lol S/he was there all the time, you just never knew about it!). Like a certain farmgirl with no military training somehow outsmarting everyone in Westfall. Even if the queen is a Blood elf, it still is bad writing. If she is a High elf, that's even worse writing.

Why can't Lor'themar finally just assume the throne and take the title of King? He honestly has the best claim of any contenders. He has years of experience, he knows the bureaucracy. He has the diplomatic experience.
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100 Human Mage
9210
10/04/2012 02:40 AMPosted by Kroxxigar
Would it be a crime from them to ELECT a queen?


Unless the government is reformed into a form of Monarchy in which monarchs are elected? Yes. No one, not even the collective people, have the power to -elect- a Queen.

10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
Why does there have to be a queen?


Well, it'd be nice to see a Queen in this story who, for once, actually survived her tenure as Queen and is influential in the plot (Sylvanas doesn't count, she's undead, and never was royalty).

10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
Why a Sunstrider?


I've reformed the idea so that it isn't a Sunstrider, but someone who bears that blood and therefor has the legitimacy to establish a new Dynasty, the Theron Dynasty. Honestly, why are you -so- against this? Its just some woman- let's say she's part of the Solaris family (not even sure if that's a family), that Prince Nallorath had a daughter who married into that family and had a daughter of her own. She's not a Sunstrider, even though she has that blood in her veins.

She can legitimately become Queen and establish someone else as King. A new Dynasty begins. Honestly, what is the problem?

The biggest weakness in your arguments Elenie is that it's been at least ten years of no sign of any Sunstrider.


Uhm... no. It's been 10 years since the end of the Third War, far less since Kael'thas was slain. Significantly less. More than half as less. Kael'thas' death was immediately proceeded by the war in Northrend according to Shadow of the Sun, and there is a 2-3 year time skip between that and Cataclysm, which occurred ten years ago. At most, Kael'thas has been dead for 2-3 years, maybe 4, but certainly not 10. Seems to me, anyone with Sunstrider blood would keep that knowledge to themselves if they wanted to survive.

10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
What were they doing in the year after the Sunwell was corrupted and destroyed and before the Blood elves joined the Horde?


In my example of... let's call her Allora Solaris, just to give her a name. In that example, what was she doing? What does a young woman of a Sin'dorei family do when the family is wiped to near extinction? Do they not have certain duties to perform? Grieving and burial rights? Caring for the people? Organizing supplies and defenses? Offering whatever help they can to whatever form of government has survived?

10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
That considerably weakens any claim the heir might have.


Except, she's not an heir. She's not a Sunstrider. She bears the blood, but she is not of the Dynasty. All she can do is marry to legitimize the next King and Dynasty. That's the extend of her power without marriage.

Even if the queen is a Blood elf, it still is bad writing. If she is a High elf, that's even worse writing.


Who said anything about a High Elf? Working off one of my old ideas? After Theramore, I honestly don't feel a neutral Quel'thalas can work. One adapts ideas as the story progresses. Better to just see the Blood Elves take care of their own business.

10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
Why can't Lor'themar finally just assume the throne and take the title of King?


Ask him, not me. Apparently its in his power according to Shadow of the Sun.

10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
He has years of experience


Among the Farstriders.

10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
he knows the bureaucracy.


Wha? Severed heads and asking Sylvanas to sign your permission form to join the Horde is the bureaucracy of the elves of Quel'thalas?

10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
He has the diplomatic experience.


If by experience you mean, failures, then I totally agree with you, he has a lot of experience at failing at diplomacy.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/04/2012 07:42 AMPosted by Kynrind
Why can't Lor'themar finally just assume the throne and take the title of King?


Because he's terrible.

Kyn, few if any Horde players like him.

This is the same BS as with Koltira and Baine, Alliance players say they're awesome while Horde players despise them.
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100 Human Mage
9210
Because he's terrible.

Kyn, few if any Horde players like him.

This is the same BS as with Koltira and Baine, Alliance players say they're awesome while Horde players despise them.


Excuse me? I do -not- say Lor'themar is awesome, far from it, he has been the single greatest waste of digital space since the internet was made public. Baine at least reflects an aspect of his culture. As for Koltira, well, I'm kind of opinionless on him, at least at the moment.

I'm all for the Blood Elves getting a new leader who can actually get things done, and it is my own preference to see this person being connected to the Sunstriders in some way to offer the old Dynasty some form of redemption, and to make the segue for a new Dynasty more simple.

Besides, a Blood Elf Queen could be pretty awesome. Make her a mage, the kind of person who rains fire down on her foes, who will absorb magical energy to augment her power, etc... It'd be nice to see the Sin'dorei, not so much as take a step backwards to their Pre-Sunwell selves, but incorporate that aspect of their culture, the extremely patriotic and hedonistic lifestyle, as they move forward. They shouldn't have to give up Fel use just because the Sunwell emits Light energy.

If anything, it could make for an interesting setup in society if you see two Noble Houses come into power, one supporting the magic-draining, fel using ways, and the others supporting the Light-cleansing, Farstrider ways.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/04/2012 12:25 PMPosted by Elenie
Excuse me? I do -not- say Lor'themar is awesome


Do I really need to stick the qualifier 'some' alliance players in there to avoid traipsing across the paper thin veils that are your feelings? :P

Besides I have a whole different issue with you, which is that you want to introduce new charcters to fix a problem rather than use existing characters potential.

Like Bloodwatcher and such.
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100 Human Mage
9210
10/04/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Skytotem
Do I really need to stick the qualifier 'some' alliance players in there to avoid traipsing across the paper thin veils that are your feelings? :P


Yes, yes you do. I'm Alliance, I'm speshul.

10/04/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Skytotem
Besides I have a whole different issue with you, which is that you want to introduce new charcters to fix a problem rather than use existing characters potential.


Introduce a character that enables older characters to remain and possibly be redeemed. Its not so much as to fix a problem with the story, as to fix a problem inside of the story. One could argue every new character introduced is done so to fix the story.

10/04/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Skytotem
Like Bloodwatcher and such.


I've already said I'd be fine with him as leader of the Blood Elves.

Of course, if the Blood Elves accept gay marriage, I suppose he could be Lor'themar's Queen.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/04/2012 12:35 PMPosted by Elenie
One could argue every new character introduced is done so to fix the story.


There's a difference between a support beam for a house extension, and duct-tape.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
I like Lor'themar.....
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/04/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Velarin
I like Lor'themar.....


Why?
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90 Pandaren Monk
7065
10/04/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Velarin
I like Lor'themar.....


10/04/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Skytotem
Why?


Because, Lor'themar may not represent how the Horde is, but he's pretty much what a Blood Elf is supposed to act. The only difference is if he wasn't the leader of the Blood Elves, he would be far more mischievousness.

He's turned down having a Dynasty forming around him, and it's pretty clear as to why. Why would he? It's clear he holds supreme power already (Through the Sunreavers joining of the Horde). So the real question is what the purpose of having a dynasty would be. It wouldn't instantly make him have a privilege, in fact, it'd make him just the same, and unless something changes in his love life, it'd be a one generation dynasty.

Then of course, the pure fact that because he has actual character personality, he despises the High Elves as HE personally (along with many others) stayed in Silvermoon, trying to re-build their home. The High Elves on the other hand? A majority of them left, refusing to take part in what Kael'Thas sent back to them. Not only that, but through quest progression, the High Elves are known to be allied with the Alliance for the most part.. The Alliance spys, and steals from Silvermoon (Faction, not city itself) throughout the quests, causing it to join the Horde.

The real question is why do you dislike him?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
10/04/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Skytotem
I like Lor'themar.....


Why?


Why not?

He's effectively the only leader who's full thought-processes, motivations, goals, and loyalties are completely up in the air.

He's nearly single-handedly kept Blood Elven society from total implosion through five wars, and two doomsday scenarios.

He has the most story potential of any faction leader. (By virtue of being the leader of the most popular race in the Horde, and being a blank slate.)

He apparently has the Trollish ability to regenerate.

His armor and weapon are both extremely cool.

His hair is fabulous.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230

He's effectively the only leader who's full thought-processes, motivations, goals, and loyalties are completely up in the air.


Um, no, we saw that he's a whimp in his story, and his writing is inconsistent.


He's nearly single-handedly kept Blood Elven society from total implosion through five wars, and two doomsday scenarios.


Rommath and Halduron and Liadrin, and Astalor Bloodsworn did as much or more than him :P


He has the most story potential of any faction leader. (By virtue of being the leader of the most popular race in the Horde, and being a blank slate.)


Lolwhat? No, Vol'jin is, hands down.

And he's not a blank slate, we saw in Quel'delar he's a jerk.


He apparently has the Trollish ability to regenerate.

Or it's an illusion. Oh wait, that would require blizzard to know or care about the lore.

They just forgot.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Skytotem
and his writing is inconsistent.


I won't deny that.

10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Skytotem
Um, no, we saw that he's a whimp in his story,


Really? Why?

Because he was reluctant to send is near-extinct race into a war which could have easily killed them all off?

Or because he eventually chose to side with Sylvanas because it was the most logical choice?

10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Skytotem
Rommath


A broken wreck. He was only ever a messenger boy.

10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Skytotem
Halduron


A great leader for the Farstriders, but a horrible candidate for actual leader of the Blood Elves.

10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Skytotem
Liadrin


We have no idea what she's actually done.

10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Skytotem
Astalor Bloodsworn


You mean the Magister who helped create the Blood Knights? But in the process, also corrupted and damned M'uru?

Yeah, i'm sure he's well-liked around town.

10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Skytotem
And he's not a blank slate, we saw in Quel'delar he's a jerk.


Pfft, not to Blood Elves. And you're a bit crazy if you think a non-Blood Elf actually completed that questline.

10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Skytotem
Or it's an illusion. Oh wait, that would require blizzard to know or care about the lore.


You're not a very optimistic person, are you?
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/04/2012 01:29 PMPosted by Velarin
Because he was reluctant to send is near-extinct race into a war which could have easily killed them all off?


Because he has no FIRE, no vengeance, no confidence, none of the defining traits of blood elves.

Because he trod thought he soggy mud to go apologize to high elves and then they SPIT on him and he TOOK IT.

He's not a blood elf he's a worm.

10/04/2012 01:29 PMPosted by Velarin
You're not a very optimistic person, are you?


Optimism with regard to the lore has never been rewarded with anything good in my experience.
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100 Human Mage
9210
10/04/2012 01:06 PMPosted by Earthgrab
he despises the High Elves as HE personally (along with many others) stayed in Silvermoon, trying to re-build their home. The High Elves on the other hand? A majority of them left, refusing to take part in what Kael'Thas sent back to them.


Just a note, its made clear in his Short Story that he cast them out and exiled them from Quel'thalas. They wanted to stay to protect and rebuild their home, but he removed them forcibly.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
Because he has no FIRE, no vengeance, no confidence, none of the defining traits of blood elves.

Because he trod thought he soggy mud to go apologize to high elves and then they SPIT on him and he TOOK IT.

He's not a blood elf he's a worm.


So, what, a little humility is a bad thing now?

You have to remember - The entire Blood Elven race came very close to becoming pawns of the Legion and helping them destroy Azeroth. For the longest time, Lor'themar went along with it - Only when Kael'thas raided Silvermoon did he draw back and decide the best course of action would be to side against their prince.

Those kind of circumstances don't make a man brash and arrogant; They temper him to be cautious and wary.
Edited by Velarin on 10/4/2012 1:42 PM PDT
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/04/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Velarin
The entire Blood Elven race


no, just Kael's people in Outland. The Silvermoon folks dropped him pretty quickly.

10/04/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Velarin
For the longest time, Lor'themar went along with it


Yeah back when they weren't working for the Legion, just using fel energy.

Those kind of circumstances don't make a man brash and arrogant; They temper him to be cautious and wary.


They shouldn't make him SPINELESS though.
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100 Human Mage
9210
10/04/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Velarin
For the longest time, Lor'themar went along with it - Only when Kael'thas raided Silvermoon did he draw back and decide the best course of action would be to side against their prince.


Out of curiosity, where is this stated, exactly? His short story makes it seem like quite the opposite, that he did nothing when Kael's forces attacked. Its been a while since I read it, but the news of Kael's death came as a massive blow to him and everyone else. It was debilitating.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5780
10/04/2012 02:30 PMPosted by Elenie
For the longest time, Lor'themar went along with it - Only when Kael'thas raided Silvermoon did he draw back and decide the best course of action would be to side against their prince.


Out of curiosity, where is this stated, exactly? His short story makes it seem like quite the opposite, that he did nothing when Kael's forces attacked. Its been a while since I read it, but the news of Kael's death came as a massive blow to him and everyone else. It was debilitating.


Being distressed that Kael died =/= Not siding against Kael.
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