Tank Soloing

90 Tauren Druid
13005
So anyone think this is painful since vengeance change?

I pulled 7 level 90 mobs and got 9k ap...........that's dreadful.

Granted in raids we do a ton of damage now(not just druids but all tanks), however I feel so gimped while soloing. At least with the old vengeance it built up over time, now it really doesn't go anywhere.

Solutions
1) Increase the base damage of tanking abilities by about 50%, this obviously creates some balancing issues, however its just base damage and when thrash ticks for 19k on raid bosses adding 2k to that isn't going to be a huge deal, and if it is a small nerf to the scaling would fix it.

2) After being in combat for 10-15 second if your vengeance isn't equal to 5% of your maximum hp it is set to that amount, if your vengeance is above that amount then there is no effect. Obviously this solution has more coding problems than anything else.

So idk just my observations doing these dailies every freaking day and seeing 5-10k vengeance stacks.
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90 Tauren Druid
6910
I think blizzard may want us to just gear up with more damage stats like crit to get more mitigation/damage.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
0
Prot warrior is fine solo. We're not *arms I'll squish your face!* awesome but we more than hold our own to kill things. Revenge needed a vastly different change from what Blizzard implemented but that's another story.

Prot paladin solo is terribad however. It's so loaded up around AP and SP abilities that it's just all over the map depending on content and incoming damage. If you're raiding it shoots way up and beyond other tanks. All of them. If you're solo or 5-manning though? Yeah...not nearly as awesome. Somebody has to be in last place, and paladin durability being so damned high by default kinda necessitates it being them.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Pull more.

I generally aim for 10-15 if I can find that many.

Alternatively: Level/quest as DPS.
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Sit down. Take a crit. Get more AP.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
6935
show back get down to 100k then pop heal cd and then u kill them in 3 heart strike = win or just pull more
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6015
When I was leveling in prot I just pulled everything I could see. It went about as quickly as a it would with a dps.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17655
I didn't mind leveling solo, but the change's impact on doing dailies has pushed them into a level of tedium that just isn't fun.

I feel very much like they're pushing a "you must all have a dps spec" agenda atm.

Pulling more can work fine, but is unreliable depending on area population & mob types. It's not really a good general purpose solution, it's just an ok work around. I doubt other classes are terribly thrilled when they see a tank pick up the entire population of a daily zone either.

It doesn't help that this seems to be an expansion where the mob designers let loose with their love of stuns, knockdowns & other miscellaneous CC.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15860
10/03/2012 10:45 PMPosted by Lakhesís
I feel very much like they're pushing a "you must all have a dps spec" agenda atm.


I like that agenda.

Btw, you aren't even prot/holy - Why would you have 2 prot specs in 5.0.X?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17655
10/04/2012 02:36 AMPosted by Ðemolition
I feel very much like they're pushing a "you must all have a dps spec" agenda atm.


I like that agenda.

Btw, you aren't even prot/holy - Why would you have 2 prot specs in 5.0.X?


It's not an agenda I can get behind.

And I'm prot/prot because I purchased a second spec for an alternate prot build in previous expansions. If I want to play a dps or healer, I'll swap characters rather than specs.
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100 Human Warlock
18010
I hate you people, so much. :|
10/04/2012 06:22 AMPosted by Lakhesís
If I want to play a dps or healer, I'll swap characters rather than specs.

That's pretty wasteful. If you're not the right choice to tank, switching to an alt is hamstringing your run; instead of being a Ret Paladin with a set of half raid gear, you're being something that may not have any raid gear?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17655
I hate you people, so much. :|
If I want to play a dps or healer, I'll swap characters rather than specs.

That's pretty wasteful. If you're not the right choice to tank, switching to an alt is hamstringing your run; instead of being a Ret Paladin with a set of half raid gear, you're being something that may not have any raid gear?


You're making some flawed assumptions about how my alts are generally geared.

That aside, a tank in a mediocre offspec is going to be worse than a genuine mainspec dps already. If you're seriously after deeps, then you should be bringing an alternate player with main spec dps in.

If you're not after serious deeps, then the cost of swapping a tank to an alt they can pull middle-of-the-pack dps with is that you can't give loot to the tank character.

I take the PoV that when your options are play a spec you don't enjoy, or don't play, then the sensible option is to not play. This lack of flexibility isn't always convenient, but you need to have a realistic understanding of what motivates you to keep playing & in my case it's pally tanking. I still enjoy seeing my frisbee shoot off & hit a mob just as much as the first time I saw it - I can't say similar about any other spec or class. My guild recognises this and accepts it, and it's one of the reasons I've stayed with them for the last 5-6 years.
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100 Human Warlock
18010
10/04/2012 06:56 AMPosted by Lakhesís
You're making some flawed assumptions about how my alts are generally geared.

No, I'm not. I have lots of alts too, I know how it works. Unless you're running <Insert Current Raid here> on your alts regularly, your main's DPS spec has all the options available to your alts, plus the unneeded pieces from your main raid. My Warrior was Prot in Dragon Soul, and my DK was Unholy; DK was geared as best as she could be from LFR, and a few pieces from some normal clears she filled in for. My Warrior's Arms gear was miles ahead, even taking into account the Ret Paladin plus the other tank's OS.

10/04/2012 06:56 AMPosted by Lakhesís
That aside, a tank in a mediocre offspec is going to be worse than a genuine mainspec dps already.

Unless the mainspec DPS is using gear half a tier behind.

I still enjoy seeing my frisbee shoot off & hit a mob just as much as the first time I saw it - I can't say similar about any other spec or class.

It's fine that that's all you enjoy. It doesn't change that it's wasteful, or that you may be hamstringing your raid on some fights.
Edited by Serinicas on 10/4/2012 7:09 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17655
No, I'm not. I have lots of alts too, I know how it works. Unless you're running <Insert Current Raid here> on your alts regularly, your main's DPS spec has all the options available to your alts, plus the unneeded pieces from your main raid.


Exactly. My alts typically aren't as geared as my main, but my primary alt is normally in current tier raid gear & sometimes has some quite nice pieces (e.g. my primary alt had the Tarecgosa legendary via an alt/pug raid, prior to DS's release). I've maintained an alt who's done competitive dps since wotlk, including ranking with my alt occasionally.

When there are hybrid specs, as all the tanks are, some players simply won't like playing the alternate specs of that class.

If Bliz hamstrings the ability of tanks & healers to do basic content in their tank/heal spec, all they're doing is alienating players who're already fulfilling the most in-demand roles in the game. Making dedicated tanks & healers not want to play doesn't help anybody.
Edited by Lakhesís on 10/4/2012 7:40 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
I am having 0 issues doing dailies. Doesn't even take that long.
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
I am having 0 issues doing dailies. Doesn't even take that long.


Its not that I'm having issues, its just that if you pull less than 10 mobs, which isn't always possible in some of the dailies areas then it takes forever to kill them, and as far as farming stuff the only place I've had success is the dread waste because the bladebarrier enhancement is really op for tanks its a 70k aoe about every 12 seconds. But anywhere else and I have issues killing quickly.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7200
Less Savage Defense, MOAR MANGLE!

Also, sitting down is a good idea.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
7075
Pull more.

I generally aim for 10-15 if I can find that many.

Alternatively: Level/quest as DPS.

By "10-15" I assume you mean every enemy in sight. I grab things that aren't even part of my quest because it'll give me extra vengeance and some loot.

Also, sitting down is a good idea.

This guy knows what's up.
Edited by Bbqsauce on 10/4/2012 11:24 AM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17735
Right, because counterintuitive mechanics (I should make an effort to take more damage so that I can fight more effectively!) are such great design. I'm not saying you're wrong, that's exactly how it works right now. I'm just saying Blizz needs to take a serious look at the signals they're sending to players.

Speaking of which, I'm gonna leave you with a Ghostcrawler quote that I feel didn't get enough attention when it first appeared.

08/10/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Ghostcrawler
We don't think tanks need high damage in order for questing to be fun, and you can even argue that it's not important for tanks to be good at questing. (I'm not arguing that specifically, but I don't think it's a hard argument to make.)
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
17735
Am I really the only one bothered by that? Huh. Thought it would get a response.

Anyway, more to add on the counterintuitive nature of the current vengeance model. I've been fighting a lot of the Pandaria champion mobs, and I've found that standing in bad is as great a strategy as you would think. Getting hit by something big (Devastating Arc, Blade Flurry, Spinning Crane Kick, etc.) gives me enough vengeance to put up a Sacred Shield with about 50k absorb strength, heal myself to full with a single Word of Glory, then start fighting back with 50k Judgements and 100k Avenger's Shields. It's not foolproof; I've gotten myself killed by standing in these attacks for a half second longer than I should. It is significantly faster than fighting them the safe way and avoiding their attacks though. Is this what the devs mean when they talk about meaningful trade-offs?
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