Blood DK DPS

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90 Undead Warlock
14110
We're regularly seeing 100k+. Tank DPS overall seems very high, but particularly Blood DK's are totally out of control.

As an aside, I can't say I understand the rationale outlined in Blizzard's post. "We think Blood DK dps is really high. Therefore we're nerfing prot warriors and prot paladins. We think that will result in Blood DK's being balanced."

Doesn't actually work that way, tho? That just makes Blood DPS even more overpowered, not less ..
90 Worgen Warlock
4450
Source for hem saying that... And all tanks have had really high dps... Ever since Vengeance. Blood the most though, because they were built on doing dps to tank.
100 Draenei Shaman
4570
It's not that simple.

Prot warrior single-target damage was largely unchanged, AE nerfed.

Guardian and Brewmaster DPS was buffed for both single and multiple targets.

Prot paladins were both buffed and nerfed; AE was definitely buffed. I haven't seen theorycraft to say if it was a single-target DPS nerf or buff overall. Either way it's definitely a survivability buff, because prot has no choice but to use seal of insight as the devs intended.
Edited by Slant on 10/3/2012 3:39 PM PDT
90 Orc Warrior
10290
Prot warrior single-target damage was largely unchanged, AE nerfed


50% less Deep Wounds dmg is pretty significant on single targets.

I understand Blizzard wanting to scale back tank damage, but leaving Blood untouched is just insulting. They were the highest damage tank BEFORE the adjustments....now the difference is gonna be even bigger.
90 Undead Warlock
14110
10/04/2012 03:06 AMPosted by Lochnar
I understand Blizzard wanting to scale back tank damage, but leaving Blood untouched is just insulting. They were the highest damage tank BEFORE the adjustments....now the difference is gonna be even bigger.


I think prot paladin was actually higher under some conditions, but yes this is my general point.
90 Undead Warlock
14110
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu'shan_Vaults/dps/

Nice to see Blood DK's populating so many of the top DPS slots for each fight, beating out all DPS classes in the process. I can see why Blizzard thought that nerfing Prot Warrior AOE would bring Blood DK's into balance tho. o_O ??????
90 Undead Warlock
14110
Actually protection paladins are also outranking most pure DPS classes on several of these rights.

This is just such a glaring issue right now. I don't understand Blizzard's coy approach.
100 Draenei Shaman
4570
10/04/2012 03:06 AMPosted by Lochnar
50% less Deep Wounds dmg is pretty significant on single targets.

Is it? I stand corrected then.

Anyway, I really don't understand why they uncapped Vengeance in the first place. It filled its purpose capped, allowing tank threat to scale with tank gear. If that didn't hold up at 90, increase the cap, don't remove it altogether.
Edited by Slant on 10/4/2012 11:03 AM PDT
it was uncapped so it could also be used to power AM abilities like shield barrier, frenzied regen, and word of glory.
100 Draenei Shaman
4570
I suppose, but those are all secondary AM. They could just get better scalars or be changed to flat percentage values. Too late for that now obviously.

Shield block, savage defense, and SotR (and death strike and stagger) are primary AM abilities. Their damage mitigation doesn't improve with attackpower.
or they could, you know, eliminate the middle man and have it scale off of damage taken, smoothed in the same style that vengence is...

but that might make too much sense
90 Undead Rogue
5450
I really don't see the problem with the tank doing high dps. My reasoning behind this is the following.

  • Tanks do not need to be concerned with dps if it is high or low, aggro management is the only concern.
  • If everyone wants to play Tank... fine, may or may not make the healer's job harder.
  • Doing good damage is bad? We are trying to kill stuff you know.
  • I think your dps spot is safe regardless..
  • Tanks are gonna roll for Tank gear..
  • It's a mechanics issue, no you are not a baddie because the tank did more dps.
  • Anyway that's my opinion, i'm not saying you guys are wrong for being concerned, i personally don't care.
    90 Undead Priest
    0

    Tanks do not need to be concerned with dps if it is high or low, aggro management is the only concern.


    This really hasn't been a serious tank concern for a long time now.


    If everyone wants to play Tank... fine, may or may not make the healer's job harder.


    Might make the healers job harder if you only have one guy doing real damage. Tanks without Vengeance don't tend to do any damage. More healers means tank can take more damage and stack higher Vengeance though.


    Doing good damage is bad? We are trying to kill stuff you know.[/li][li]I think your dps spot is safe regardless.


    Good damage is fine. I am the tank roll is more interactive then it was when they did no damage. But, doing more damage than class that are designed to do damage is, well, poor design.


    Tanks are gonna roll for Tank gear..


    People roll on whatever gear they want.


    It's a mechanics issue, no you are not a baddie because the tank did more dps.


    Yeah, and it seems kinda busted.

    I would be all for tanks doing more damage, if dps could actually take hits, and work to help control a pull somehow. A somewhat melding of the rolls would be neat (although a complete melding of them is something I don't think I would want to see). As it stands now, with the game as it currently is, tanks being machines of death is extremely counter intuitive.
    90 Undead Rogue
    5450
    how dare you dissect my uncaring perspective!
    90 Undead Warlock
    14110
    I think the idea is - if blood dk's do the same DPS as DPS classes, but are FAR more survivable, why should any DPS be brought to the raid?
    90 Goblin Death Knight
    8155
    10/04/2012 04:25 PMPosted by Ashin
    I think the idea is - if blood dk's do the same DPS as DPS classes, but are FAR more survivable, why should any DPS be brought to the raid?


    And that right there is the long and short of the problem.
    100 Tauren Warrior
    18005
    10/04/2012 04:25 PMPosted by Ashin
    if blood dk's do the same DPS as DPS classes, but are FAR more survivable, why should any DPS be brought to the raid?


    Are Blood DKs doing as much damage as dps when they aren't tanking mobs/generating vengeance? If so then that's a problem, but if it's only occurring when they are actively tanking then this point is somewhat moot. DK's damage is too high relative to tanks regardless (while tanking).

    I also think tank DPS is too high, but I'm going to wait until people are actually geared up to make a true conclusion.
    Edited by Scyas on 10/5/2012 3:47 AM PDT
    90 Troll Warrior
    16215
    10/04/2012 04:25 PMPosted by Ashin
    I think the idea is - if blood dk's do the same DPS as DPS classes, but are FAR more survivable, why should any DPS be brought to the raid?

    Because Vengeance doesn't work like that. Do you take (note: take, not do) the same DPS as a tank? No? Then how will a tank spec replacing you get enough Vengeance to do the same damage as the guy tanking? He can't? I guess you won't be replaced by a Blood DK then huh?

    10/05/2012 02:26 AMPosted by Vandaro
    And that right there is the long and short of the problem.

    You also don't get how Vengeance works.

    10/05/2012 03:46 AMPosted by Scyas
    I also think tank DPS is too high, but I'm going to wait until people are actually geared up to make a true conclusion.

    Not possible. It could be "too high" in that it breaks the encounter, but encounters were designed with this level of tank DPS. Past that, it can only be "too high" in that "my epeen is wounded because I'm not doing 4x the tank's damage." It really doesn't matter where the tank is on damage, other than the effect it has on fragile egos.
    Edited by Sildas on 10/5/2012 5:12 AM PDT
    90 Orc Warrior
    10290
    10/04/2012 04:25 PMPosted by Ashin
    I think the idea is - if blood dk's do the same DPS as DPS classes, but are FAR more survivable, why should any DPS be brought to the raid?


    Blood DK's (and indeed all tanks) do piss poor damage unless they are getting hit.

    A DK trying to dps as blood is nothing but a burden to the group.
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