Blood DK DPS

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100 Tauren Warrior
19390
10/05/2012 05:10 AMPosted by Sildas
Not possible


Entirely possible, a spec(s) damage output can be too high relative to it's related specs or as a whole. We don't get special treatment because we are tanks. That is to say if this IS the intended level of dps a tank should pull, then by all means that's what Blizzard has balanced around!

It might be the fact that we're going to stagnate in terms of damage dealt with a slight increase over the tiers with gear improvements and more DTPS and DPS roles will skyrocket as they scale with actual offensive stats.
Edited by Scyas on 10/5/2012 5:52 AM PDT
90 Undead Warlock
14110
I mean..

.. I think you guys make a semi-legitimate point. But I also assume you realize that the tank is not supposed to top the meters on every single fight in the dungeon and raid. It's clearly way overboard right now.
100 Human Warlock
20115
10/05/2012 05:40 AMPosted by Scyas
Entirely possible, a spec(s) damage output can be too high relative to it's related specs or as a whole.

No, not possible. The fights were designed with tank DPS being this high in mind. It can't be too high if that was the target. Yes, DPS can be too high compared to related specs, but since the related specs in this case are "other tanks," and the statement was that tank DPS (ie: The entire spectrum of related specs) was too high, that's really not relevant.

10/05/2012 05:40 AMPosted by Scyas
That is to say if this IS the intended level of dps a tank should pull, then by all means that's what Blizzard has balanced around!

Given their statements to that effect, and their stance ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794029542?page=1#1 ) brought up in the recent tank damage buffs/nerfs, uh, yeah, I'm pretty sure this is intended. People are complaining that Blood DKs are doing too much damage, and yet...

Death Knights
While Blood Death Knights have been higher on damage than most other tanks, we’re expecting that the adjustments we’re making to the other tanking classes will close the gap. While we haven’t made any changes to Blood lately, we will be keeping a close eye on it.


10/05/2012 05:40 AMPosted by Scyas
It might be the fact that we're going to stagnate in terms of damage dealt with a slight increase over the tiers with gear improvements and more DTPS and DPS roles will skyrocket as they scale with actual offensive stats.

Tanks aren't going to stagnate really. Vengeance is directly tied to pre-mitigation DTPS, or to put it another way, pre-mitigation Boss DPS. Boss DPS will increase as we progress through tiers, and as such so will Vengeance, thus tank DPS.
Edited by Serinicas on 10/5/2012 7:04 AM PDT
27 Night Elf Druid
16875
why are blood dk's toping dps meters in raid encounters? i dont get this design.they are tanks(and hybrid if you want to go there....), beating out pure dps classes? doe this make sense? why not just show up with a raid full of blood dk's? crazy dps, awesome self heals ,survivability,
since when do tanks out dps, the raids dps classes?its pretty overboard.....blizz thinks these #'s makes sense?, really? how?

"hey dps, your tank is going to out dps you all, have fun" ......look how that sounds...
90 Orc Death Knight
0
10/05/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Esaris
why not just show up with a raid full of blood dk's? crazy dps, awesome self heals ,survivability,


Maybe because only the Tank with agro will be gaining the benefit of Vengeance...

Amazes me how every xpac QQ abroad, it's like herding Cats around here... Maybe once everyone has better gear, they will surpass the Tank, since Tanks don't really gain much in dps stats as they gain better Tanking gear, Panda Land has only been out a very short time.

Who would had thunk...

I'm sure Blizz will do some adjustment if needed, when it is needed & over nerf something for Blood that effects both Frost & Unholy dps, track record.

Carry on with the QQ..
100 Draenei Shaman
5195
C'mon now, tanks topping DPS in raids is a completely new phenomenon. People are upset by change. If it's intended, so be it. If not (and I suspect it's not) they will fix it.

Ideally by addressing Vengeance directly and not individually nerfing all the tank specs one by one, as that would be as painful as possible.
Edited by Slant on 10/5/2012 12:48 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Hunter
9040
I have an extremely hard time pulling over 30k sometimes on single target, i've reached up too 50k, but on my tank ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/feathermoon/Duskdragoon/simple )
I pulled 50k no prob, i have no problem keeping a crazy amount of aggro and i haven't even started really leveling yet, just did a few dungeons to test him out...

Blood DK is REALLY powerful, but i think they are there just because of their Death Strike damage, its REALLY strong and at 5 stacks it heals you almost half of your health(well my health)
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
*sigh*

Vengeance works on pre-mitigation damage taken, which is static for each boss outside of avoidable damage. Tank damage is almost entirely dictated by Vengeance - a tank with no Vengeance will do about 10-15k DPS, tops.

When a tank fights a boss, they do the same damage that tier that they will do for the entire tier. When we walk into a raid, it's like we have all our BiS DPS pieces already equipped simply by pulling the boss, and what actually improves as we gear up is our ability to survive the fght.

The DPS, on the other hand, doesn't worry about survival, but has to climb up the gear ladder to do damage.

What this means is that tanks will do more damage than DPS at the start of the tier, when the DPS is undergeared, and less at the end of the tier when the DPS has properly itemized and upgraded epics on.

Wait to see what happens until the DPS isn't running around in all blues.
85 Human Paladin
7460
10/05/2012 12:40 PMPosted by Nobul
Amazes me how every xpac QQ abroad, it's like herding Cats around here... Maybe once everyone has better gear, they will surpass the Tank, since Tanks don't really gain much in dps stats as they gain better Tanking gear, Panda Land has only been out a very short time.


Not to mention that some theory crafters have discovered that with an active mitigation model and not a passive model for tanks....

Some tanks, particularly a Protection paladin can see an increase in overall survivability by going for 7.5% hit then soft (and eventually hard capping expertise with 15%) capping expertise before prioritizing mastery and/or haste over parry and dodge.

This is going to lead to vengeance soaking specs doing higher dps than in the past expansions.

I only hope that Blizzard's apparent guess that dps specs will scale up higher (and more quicklly) as PvE gear for the players improves
90 Undead Warlock
14110
10/05/2012 12:47 PMPosted by Plaugepuppy
Blood DK's have been left alone mainly cause DPS players suck balls.


Yes, I'm sure that is it.

Some time between the end of Cata and the beginning of Mists, ALL DPS players across the entire world suddenly forgot how to play. And, by coincidence, ALL Blood DK players across the world suddenly became 4 or 5x better at their class than they ever were in the previous two expansions.

Clearly this is about player skill and has nothing to do with broken mechanics.

No one has yet been able to explain Blizzard's rationale to me. Blizzard states Blood DK's are doing more DPS than other tanks. They then NERF other tanks' damage. They then conclude that Blood DK's should be balanced now.

???

On my planet, math doesn't work this way. If A is greater than B, and you subtract from B, the gap becomes bigger, not smaller ...
90 Worgen Death Knight
13110
10/09/2012 09:35 AMPosted by Ashin
Blood DK's have been left alone mainly cause DPS players suck balls.


Yes, I'm sure that is it.

Some time between the end of Cata and the beginning of Mists, ALL DPS players across the entire world suddenly forgot how to play. And, by coincidence, ALL Blood DK players across the world suddenly became 4 or 5x better at their class than they ever were in the previous two expansions.

Clearly this is about player skill and has nothing to do with broken mechanics.

No one has yet been able to explain Blizzard's rationale to me. Blizzard states Blood DK's are doing more DPS than other tanks. They then NERF other tanks' damage. They then conclude that Blood DK's should be balanced now.

???

On my planet, math doesn't work this way. If A is greater than B, and you subtract from B, the gap becomes bigger, not smaller ...


You might want to read the blue post again. Druid, Monk and Paladin damage was buffed, Warrior's recieved an AoE damage nerf because they were ahead when there were three or more targets and Blizz is aware Blood DPS was higher than other tanks but felt the changes they made will put all tanks in similar DPS situations.

You can probably infer then that Blood DK dps is where Blizz wants all the tanks to be at, as opposed to a high outlier that needs to be pulled back, but we'll see, Blizz claims to be watching the situation.

I kind of expect a small nerf to diseases to lower our AoE dps some.
90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
10/04/2012 03:03 PMPosted by Kodiakarrest
or they could, you know, eliminate the middle man and have it scale off of damage taken, smoothed in the same style that vengence is...


Blood Shield doesn't use vengeance and yet seems to be functional.
90 Human Death Knight
10190
Perhaps I should stop pulling 2-3 groups at once while dropping Dancing Rune Weapon to do 150k dps.

The dps that can only do 25k won't be so offended as to start threads like this.
100 Pandaren Hunter
14245
http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu'shan_Vaults/dps/

Nice to see Blood DK's populating so many of the top DPS slots for each fight, beating out all DPS classes in the process. I can see why Blizzard thought that nerfing Prot Warrior AOE would bring Blood DK's into balance tho. o_O ??????


Any time tanks are beating out DPS it is a serious issue. Tanks are not meant to DPS, that what's DPS classes are for. Shocking concept, I know. I don't know why Blizz thinks that tank damage needs to be so high, across all specs.
90 Human Warrior
0
not sure if anyone saw BL stone guard heroic kill but there prot pally was #1 in damage(he was tanking 2 even beating out the combat rogues) and Rigg was beating some healers on healing done and staying verry close to all the other healers o.O!
90 Human Warrior
10675
10/04/2012 05:53 AMPosted by Cezar
Yay,, and my DPS as compaired to other REAL metal wearing tanks was the lowest.. woot, glad I got a nerf..


As a blood dk I say "the pally nerf was uncalled for."

As a warrior I say "without a healer, I die. That's not true for 2 of the 4 tanks." You're one of the lucky 2.
2 Tauren Druid
0
this tends to happen when you give a tank a two-handed weapon and can still tank with it. blood dk's should have to move to one-handers or lower the damage on deathstrike it's almost at 400% weapon damage.
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