Why we are energy starved.

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90 Undead Rogue
12140
Just for the record, I'm still monitoring this thread.

Note: Please don't be vulgar, hyperbolic, draw the discussion off-topic, violate the forum code of conduct, or otherwise disrupt this potentially very constructive thread. These things will make me sad. I do not want to be sad. None of us want to be sad. No sads.

Speaking of follow-up questions:

  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


-Shadow walk is amazing
-Our CCs
-Sub's energy regen
-The idea behind our poisons doing the damage as assassination (I found it interesting being a melee dot class)
-I love versatility as assassination and anticipation as sub
-The idea behind shuriken toss and deadly throw is nice but still has too many flaws to be chosen in our tree
-Most of all, our utilities

I think that our utilities are the only reason we aren't extinct.
90 Orc Rogue
12845
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


Negligible ramp up on Poison is appreciated.

Bandit's Guile being a self buff is good, although I still question the point of a blatantly artificial ramp up time.

Utility poisons are neat, although with the high cost of Shiv and our grossly low energy regeneration, it rarely sees use.

Allowing Combat Rogues to use slow offhands is fun. Change poison mechanics so it's truly weapon agnostic.

That's.....about it. lol

We're still one of the worst as far as Raid utility. Everything we can do utility wise costs us DPS, where other classes get them free, or nearly free. Warrior interrupt, you gain dps. Weakened Armor is built into their rotation via glyph, and costs nothing. Tricks of the trade? Sure, let me nerf my own damage to buff someone else. Because that's fun. Being the only pure melee DPS, I could see these tradeoffs if we did 10% more than other hybrid melee, but we don't.

I haven't even done any max level PvP because I don't like sitting in roots and putting out horrible damage except when you get 100% uptime, and even then, most of the damage is passive.
90 Night Elf Rogue
15595
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


I believe a lot was done to improve ramp-up time. I find that the poison change and the addition of a combo-point booster (AKA Shadow Blades) do significantly improve that aspect of rogue life.

That being said, that's really only an adjustment to something that was woefully inadequate prior to mists, and it really only shines as an improvement because it was in such a terrible place beforehand. Still, it is an improvement.
90 Undead Rogue
0
I like the goosh goosh sound Shadowblades makes. I also like the power itself though, in all honesty, it's kind of dull looking compared to every other classes big scary new power. Which is kind of endemic with rogue abilities.

I like shroud of concealment. I'd like it more if other people didn't decide to ignore it's existence and pull all the mobs.

I like being able to have a utility poison. Like, a lot. I also like not having to fill up bag space with poisons.

I like that I have a little samurai hat. Can we have one in black? Or dark blue? The platies get a dark blue one.

On the other hand, it feels like we've had a lot of our personal utility removed and a chunk of said utility has been handed to other classes.

Like...okay, Kick. Kick is the best example of this. I understand the whole issue of the pvp interrupt war and instant casts getting out of control due to everyone having interrupts and so on. But we've gone from having the best interrupt to having one of the worst, that's both on the same cool down as everyone else and having a fairly significant opportunity cost in terms of energy.

And it feels a bit like that across the board. That we've had a bunch of our toys made worse and then other classes have gotten new, shinier looking better versions.

Also our damage isn't great, which is a bit much when combined with the lost of utility since we were told that some loss of uitlity would ensure our damage would get looked at and we are still squishier than clothies without our cooldowns. Which are now even longer and cooldownier than before.
90 Undead Rogue
TTG
11180

Likely that you don't even notice you're using it. A spell effect would have been fun. Like that purple flame look that they had on those fire bird mounts from Firelands


It's not a visual thing; we've always been rather shafted on that end- I meant mechanic-wise. I use it tethered with AR because that's just how combat works; but apart from the second combo point it's not exactly noticeable and it doesn't feel like it's doing anything apart from the additional point but again; it just feels like AR. Honestly it just feels like a normal AR because I'm just mashing the SS button anyway to use more finishers to lower my cooldowns so I can repeat the whole thing again. Unless you look at the combat logs and see "oh I was doing shadow damage" it's completely unnoticeable unless you've been playing a rogue for a long time and have mental 'ticks' about when you're gaining CPs and notice you are getting more.
90 Night Elf Rogue
8275
Just for the record, I'm still monitoring this thread.

Note: Please don't be vulgar, hyperbolic, draw the discussion off-topic, violate the forum code of conduct, or otherwise disrupt this potentially very constructive thread. These things will make me sad. I do not want to be sad. None of us want to be sad. No sads.

Speaking of follow-up questions:

  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


I will do you one better (hopefully)

Likes:

-The first tier talents (save for nightstalker) are actually really interesting. Subterfuge is very unique

-DOUBLE SWORDS! (Now if you would only put in agi swords... >.<)

-Assassination and Combat playable in PvP (at least MUCH more so than in cata)

-New flavor glyphs (like decoy)

-Poison mechanics and the new poisons (Though I HATE the fact that para and leeching poison lock each other out)

-Blind in stealth

-ShS to allies (though the CD means we cant do it that often)

Dislikes:

-Level 90 talents are VERY boring (save for perhaps anticipation). While versatility and shuriken are NOT BAD per say....they are just very boring to pick and use.

-Prep....please let it die!

-Flat damage talents (Prey on the weak, and nightstalker)

-ShS having a 24sec CD and not breaking or suppressing roots

-No flashy spell effects or animations

-SHADOW WALK....why doesnt this have ANY audio or animation or spell effect...seriously.

-Combat and Sub spec rotations and skills being so similar

Overall the main issues I have with rogues in cata is not that they are weak....its that...they are just so boring to watch and to play. The reason I am leveling this guy to 90 first is because he was my first ever char...not necessarily because he is the most fun to play.

Wish list:

-Prep dieing and having 3 mobility talents on that tier

-Versatility and Shuriken Toss reworked to be a bit more fun to use.

-SHADOW WALK GETTING A VISUAL OR AUDIO EFFECT!

-New spell effects (particularly for Shadow Blades, Vendetta, Shadow Dance, AR, and Hemo/SS...I want to look cool to you know...)

-Prey on the weak and Nightstalker made to be more than just flat damage buffs

-Opener skills to matter for Mut and Combat specs....right now I dont know if I should even open with ambush over mut as assassination.

By the way thanks for chiming in here. Also if any other classes give you beef let us know, we will poison their tea and food for you (or stab them in the back) :P
Edited by Timat on 10/5/2012 6:10 PM PDT
90 Goblin Rogue
14320
10/05/2012 05:43 PMPosted by Xiaoqing
you only play "Rogue" you don't play "Combat Rogue" or "Assassination Rogue", just Rogue.


This i think was an unintended result of the spec changes. There is really no difference in specs now as far as mechanics go, save for one spec doing damage with poisons, one with hammers and axes, and one with shadowdance.
There is very little that we have going for us that is really exciting at all. I was thinking one way we could remedy this is to lower the damage on cp generators by 50% and double our energy regen or something.

When i look at the changes that have been given, they all seem a bit contrived. If we spend a talent point and glyph slot in an area, we get great gouges. Same goes for great feints. Though without the glyph and corresponding talent, the abilities are nearly worthless. I feel pigeon-holed into playing the way that some developer wants me to play.

Will some people excel at the current rogue playstyle, yes.
But for the first time in WoW history, i can honestly say that i don't care to be one of those players. The hassle that it would require to play a class that i don't find appealing is just kinda sickening. The benefit doesn't outweigh the effort.
Edited by Cigarettes on 10/5/2012 6:01 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Rogue
20115
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


Shadowstep able to be used on allies is pretty neat.

Be in all honestly, nothing. Almost everything is the same or was nerfed.
90 Pandaren Rogue
11125
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


Well, I'll be one to speak as an Assassination rogue. Right now, the mutilate rotation feels very fluid, and one of the main reasons is due to the fact that using Envenom currently refreshes your Slice n' Dice duration, which takes quite a load off of your rotation. The problem that we run into is that, at the moment, mutilate costs a whopping 55 Energy per mutilate. That means I can only do 2 mutilates before I am entirely out of energy, which leaves me with a LOT of downtime in-between when I finish my mutilates, and when I may start mutilating once more.

It's really just quite boring to be sitting there as my energy bar slowly fills up so I may continue to DPS once more.

That's my two cents, anyhow.
Edited by Zhon on 10/5/2012 6:02 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Rogue
7650
Just for the record, I'm still monitoring this thread.

Note: Please don't be vulgar, hyperbolic, draw the discussion off-topic, violate the forum code of conduct, or otherwise disrupt this potentially very constructive thread. These things will make me sad. I do not want to be sad. None of us want to be sad. No sads.

Speaking of follow-up questions:

  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?


I think shadow blades is a great ability, but the cooldown, should be brought down to two mins. or vanish should be brought back to two mins. the 3 min cooldowns are too long even if we do get an extra one (SB)
90 Night Elf Rogue
6790
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?

The fact I can farm Snow Lily and Ghost Iron/Trillium easier than every other class.
Other than that not too much.
I've actually stopped heroic farming because of several groups kicking me for low dps...
90 Night Elf Rogue
8275
Oh I forgot to mention....why did you guys make glyph of disguise break on combat?

I mean last I checked most if not all of the "giant" model's were relabaled as actual "Giant" types. Thus unable to be copied by the glyph.

As such why couldnt you:

a) Make the glyph stay active in combat (5min duration)

or

b) Make the glyph break on combat, but last untill canceled

You guys kinda...nerfed the fun outta it.

I mean I LOVE the glyph...but so much wasted potential you know.
90 Goblin Rogue
14320
Energy regen is a major issue for every spec.
In pve, half the time i spend runing around in circles before i can cast mutilate again, than wait another 4 or 5 seconds to do it again. There is nothing fun about that... maybe if it did 3 times the damage it would be cool, but that just isn't the case.
Rogues are known to be shadowy nutcases who sling blades around at blinding speeds. I feel more like a melee mage with a cast time on all my attacks.... and less survivability.
Edited by Cigarettes on 10/5/2012 6:10 PM PDT
Taking hemo off stanuinary vein has really hurt us tho.. and no improved recuperate so we have to have SnD running all the time..
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?

PvE wise, i think your most important role atm is our burst. As combat, my main PvE spec, it's really easy to use my CD's , build deep insight buff ( +30% dmg) and use Killing Spree to achiev 80k+ dps sometimes, i like this, and it's been working well to balance with our kind of bad constant dmg.

PvP wise, i kinda like and dislike the "support role", at the same time. For me, rogues aren't suppose to play a support roll, but there's a point within.

Let me begin with what i think a rogue should do, overall. They should be able to kick in battles, burst a enemy down, almost without reaction, because he will just be so confused to act with all those stuns slows and debuffs, that you will have almost free action. But just after that happens, rogues better vanish and go away fast, cause they need to be squishy, a real glass cannon.

And the "support role" offers this confusion, because we have a lot of those tools to confuse the enemy or make him less effective, this has been working pretty well.
90 Goblin Rogue
8455
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?

Everything, yet nothing.

It seems with rogues, we're able to do a little bit of everything, varying slightly from spec to spec, yet we can't match the power that other classes have in any of the areas.

I can CC pretty well, but the CD's on them are a major turn-off when compared to all the ranged classes, as well as Paladins, Hunters, and Warriors to some extent.

Burst isn't that bad, but again, not even comparable to what Warriors, SPriests, Mages, and Hunters are capable of.

Mobility, yet again, is nice when used correctly, but when put on top of the high mobility of other classes, as well as their better CC, There's still plenty of time spent doing nothing but Shuriken Toss.

So, I guess the best thing a rogue can do is being sneaky, and that's Sub's niche.
90 Undead Rogue
8650
10/05/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Daxxarri
  • What do you feel really works well for your Rogue in Mists?

I love the synergy of Ad Rush and SBlades used together.

Combat being somewhat viable in PvP is really enjoyable.
Now if only Restless Blades trigged off of Kidney Shot. (And if defensive cooldowns weren't on far too long a cooldown.)
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