The problem with Disc (with math!)

85 Night Elf Druid
0
10/07/2012 11:08 AMPosted by Jilu
Would be nice if you could provide some data. Although you probably won't. Sure Priests have issues, but I mean, no datas.


The basis of their argument is that there isn't enough data to draw from. How would you have them go about revealing an absence of data?

10/07/2012 11:02 AMPosted by Jilu
How they present themselves. Bill Clinton for example is a liar, a cheat, not overly intelligent, but you know what? People LOVE him! Why? Because he seems "nice".


And you don't see a problem with that? Our focus on appearances is nothing but a hindrance to progress, no matter how you look at it. Just because the ignorant majority of the populace does it, doesn't mean we should do it.
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90 Pandaren Monk
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10/07/2012 11:11 AMPosted by Jilu
How does he come off there? Why even defend rudeness?


It comes off as he's saying:

"This math is really, really, really bad and it doesn't show what you're trying to say."

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1 Human Warrior
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10/07/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Advanced
Would be nice if you could provide some data. Although you probably won't. Sure Priests have issues, but I mean, no datas.


I actually told Tiriel I was going to level my 85 priest and help get some in-depth math on the balance of the class. But with the way you guys react, I absolutely have no interest in helping anymore.


"well you said it mean so I'm not going to help you /cross arms, nose up".
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
Can we like please try and get back on topic or something?
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955
10/07/2012 11:12 AMPosted by Fleurs
We're really just trying to help everyone understand here that the data provided in the OP is not accurate for reasons already stated. That's all. Let's all stop giving 2 !@#$s about how it was said.


Did you know that if you're conducting business in other countries you will be required to familiarize yourself with their customs? Otherwise, you will give up any chance you had at making a deal.

I'm not even kidding, try going to China without knowing their meal etiquette. You'll be leaving with no deal, no job, no money, and they will probably never deal with the company you were working for again.

Being polite matters.

So yeah, we care about how he said it.
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90 Pandaren Monk
HC
9450
How does he come off there? Why even defend rudeness?


It comes off as he's saying:

"This math is really, really, really bad and it doesn't show what you're trying to say."

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Its not even the math.
Its the data.

I also find it hilarious how priests are derailing their OWN THREAD.

This is the funniest thing i've seen on the forums in a while.

10/07/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Qùess
Can we like please try and get back on topic or something?


10/07/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Berrillo
"well you said it mean so I'm not going to help you /cross arms, nose up".


More like why would I reward a community who is hissy fitting.
Edited by Advanced on 10/7/2012 11:18 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955
10/07/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Staccato
How does he come off there? Why even defend rudeness?


It comes off as he's saying:

"This math is really, really, really bad and it doesn't show what you're trying to say."

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Actually the "0/10" comes off as him saying:

"Stop trolling."
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10/07/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Berrillo
"well you said it mean so I'm not going to help you /cross arms, nose up".


Well let start off with you:

How do you feel about the raids? What are your experiences? What is your spec? What's your raid comp? What's the problems you're facing in this specific raid?

Actually the "0/10" comes off as him saying:

"Stop trolling."


That holds about 5% important to the point of the post you're talking about.

And that's not what you need to be paying attention to - you need to be paying attention to the actual meat of the post.
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Edited by Staccato on 10/7/2012 11:18 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
16615
Actually the "0/10" comes off as him saying:

"Stop trolling."


The whole lot of you seem to just be telling us to shut up. Great message to all the people who lurk but don't post who might also be upset.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
10/07/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Advanced
More like why would I reward a community who is hissy fitting.


I've only posted once in this thread on page 3...I'm not throwing a hissy fit. I genuinely want this subject to go somewhere. It may not have been started with the best example, but can we just move on from there?
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955


It comes off as he's saying:

"This math is really, really, really bad and it doesn't show what you're trying to say."

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Picticle/Practicarp/Practical


Its not even the math.
Its the data.

I also find it hilarious how priests are derailing their OWN THREAD.

This is the funniest thing i've seen on the forums in a while.

10/07/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Qùess
Can we like please try and get back on topic or something?


Because none of us have other characters?

But yeah, I'll stop posting now. Only because I hope someone with the math you're looking for shows up.

Oh... and try being nicer in the future.
Edited by Jilu on 10/7/2012 11:21 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
Did you know that if you're conducting business in other countries you will be required to familiarize yourself with their customs? Otherwise, you will give up any chance you had at making a deal.

I'm not even kidding, try going to China without knowing their meal etiquette. You'll be leaving with no deal, no job, no money, and they will probably never deal with the company you were working for again.

Being polite matters.

So yeah, we care about how he said it.


I still see that as a problem.

I want product X. Guy offers me product X for half the market price, other guy offers me product X for twice the market price. I'm upset by guy's table manners, so I buy from other guy and go out of business.

Logic?

Jilu, that's an analogy that only works when the timeframe for the decision is so small that we have to include appearances in lieu of more substantial data. I'd love to think we can be patient enough to wait until next week to conclude the sky is falling.

10/07/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Qùess
Can we like please try and get back on topic or something?


I don't know how much discussion we can really stimulate with the data given in this thread. It's not something we can use to make conclusions, more something we should keep in our back pocket until we have more data.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955
10/07/2012 11:17 AMPosted by Staccato
"well you said it mean so I'm not going to help you /cross arms, nose up".


Well let start off with you:

How do you feel about the raids? What are your experiences? What is your spec? What's your raid comp? What's the problems you're facing in this specific raid?

Actually the "0/10" comes off as him saying:

"Stop trolling."


That holds about 5% important to the point of the post you're talking about.

And that's not what you need to be paying attention to - you need to be paying attention to the actual meat of the post.
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So you're saying that rude behavior is fine? As long as you're right you can insult people as much as you like?

Maybe I'm way off base, I must be because I didn't think an MVP would condone rude behavior.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955
Did you know that if you're conducting business in other countries you will be required to familiarize yourself with their customs? Otherwise, you will give up any chance you had at making a deal.

I'm not even kidding, try going to China without knowing their meal etiquette. You'll be leaving with no deal, no job, no money, and they will probably never deal with the company you were working for again.

Being polite matters.

So yeah, we care about how he said it.


I still see that as a problem.

I want product X. Guy offers me product X for half the market price, other guy offers me product X for twice the market price. I'm upset by guy's table manners, so I buy from other guy and go out of business.

Logic?

Jilu, that's an analogy that only works when the timeframe for the decision is so small that we have to include appearances in lieu of more substantial data. I'd love to think we can be patient enough to wait until next week to conclude the sky is falling.

10/07/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Qùess
Can we like please try and get back on topic or something?


I don't know how much discussion we can really stimulate with the data given in this thread. It's not something we can use to make conclusions, more something we should keep in our back pocket until we have more data.


The logic doesn't matter. The fact remains that, in the business world (see: real life?), you'll essentially be executed at a corporate level if you don't show some etiquette. It doesn't matter what product you have, if they don't like you, they won't deal with you.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
10/07/2012 11:05 AMPosted by Advanced
I'm the nicest person in the world if you were to get to know me, and that why I have friends defending me. While not necessary; Its just how it is. You dont know me. You're not contributing. You're literally trolling and infesting this post with filler more than I am.


Why doesn't it translate, then? Did you get the friends you have now by pointing out their flaws in an aggressive and rude tone? Or did they have to get past a very prickly and condescending exterior to get to the gooey niceness inside?

You came in, smeared his math, and then continued smearing it with a basic message of "it's so obvious, anyone not fawning over Kaels would get it". It was honestly both what you said and how you said it. You didn't elucidate. You didn't even try until people started calling you out. Many players aren't strong mathematicians. Many players aren't trained in scientific study. Many who are don't appear to have learned anything about logical debate. Assuming knowledge on the part of others is a pretty huge mistake.

I don't know if you need to learn a bit about tact, or if you have it but choose not to employ it with people you don't know, but it would behoove you to at least try. Had you come in and said, "This math is flawed. Here's how it's flawed. Here's what needs to happen for it to improve." right off the bat, you would have been much better received—not only emotionally, but cerebrally.
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
10/07/2012 11:24 AMPosted by Jilu
The logic doesn't matter. The fact remains that, in the business world (see: real life?), you'll essentially be executed at a corporate level if you don't show some etiquette. It doesn't matter what product you have, if they don't like you, they won't deal with you.


I refer you, then, to my criticism of the analogy, as you've done nothing to rebut it.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Pandaren Monk
HC
11700
So you're saying that rude behavior is fine? As long as you're right you can insult people as much as you like?

Maybe I'm way off base, I must be because I didn't think an MVP would condone rude behavior.


No, I'm saying that if you're going to have a discussion, debate, or argument you need to pay attention to the point of that person's post rather than all the other crap around. There is something to be gleaned from people who are intelligent and crabby.

10/07/2012 11:24 AMPosted by Jilu
The logic doesn't matter. The fact remains that, in the business world (see: real life?), you'll essentially be executed at a corporate level if you don't show some etiquette. It doesn't matter what product you have, if they don't like you, they won't deal with you.


This isn't the business world, cupcake.

It's as simple as this: focus on the point of people's post. Stop trying to pay attention to the crap that may bother you when you're trying to have a discussion. Report the people who you think are breaking rules and that's it.

I don't understand what's so hard about that.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955
10/07/2012 11:25 AMPosted by Elethia
I'm the nicest person in the world if you were to get to know me, and that why I have friends defending me. While not necessary; Its just how it is. You dont know me. You're not contributing. You're literally trolling and infesting this post with filler more than I am.


Why doesn't it translate, then? Did you get the friends you have now by pointing out their flaws in an aggressive and rude tone? Or did they have to get past a very prickly and condescending exterior to get to the gooey niceness inside?

You came in, smeared his math, and then continued smearing it with a basic message of "it's so obvious, anyone not fawning over Kaels would get it". It was honestly both what you said and how you said it. You didn't elucidate. You didn't even try until people started calling you out. Many players aren't strong mathematicians. Many players aren't trained in scientific study. Many who are don't appear to have learned anything about logical debate. Assuming knowledge on the part of others is a pretty huge mistake.

I don't know if you need to learn a bit about tact, or if you have it but choose not to employ it with people you don't know, but it would behoove you to at least try. Had you come in and said, "This math is flawed. Here's how it's flawed. Here's what needs to happen for it to improve." right off the bat, you would have been much better received—not only emotionally, but cerebrally.


This.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955
The logic doesn't matter. The fact remains that, in the business world (see: real life?), you'll essentially be executed at a corporate level if you don't show some etiquette. It doesn't matter what product you have, if they don't like you, they won't deal with you.


I refer you, then, to my criticism of the analogy, as you've done nothing to rebut it.


Your criticism assumes that one party is offering a substantially better deal than the other. That doesn't normally happen. No if ands or buts. If they do not LIKE you they do not deal with you.

Edit: Because You're and Your is tough.
Edited by Jilu on 10/7/2012 11:31 AM PDT
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