Class Balance? How can that be?

90 Human Paladin
7890
I was just doing the Klaxxi Daily Quests and I was happy that I was able to down 5 level 90's at the same time without dying. Then along came a Frost DK. He/She downed 8 level 90's at the same time and did it much faster than I downed 5. The worst part is.. the DK's health pool never even reached 60%. How can this be balanced?

Ret is the only DPS class we have. Why is it one of the worst in the game? We have no AoE to speak of, our rotation is FCFS, and we have to spend our HP on heals sometimes (lowering DPS in the process). With a 300K+ health pool, 24-60K is nothing. (60K crit heals after the target is dead)

Seal of Insight helps if there are not too many targets around you. Once you reach a certain number of enemies, SI doesn't do much. (less than 5K each tick)

I like playing a ret pally, I do not like prot or holy so telling me to change specs is not an option.

Tell me what your thoughts are and share what you have seen. The GM's need to see it.
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My thoughts are that basing how well a class performs in PvE based entirely off how fast you can aoe grind mobs for dailies is a silly thing to do.

Regardless of how strong ret dps is right now, that's a pretty silly seeming way to go about it imo.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
Especially silly when you didn't even mention (don't even know?) what kind of gear the DK had, nor whether their spec was specifically tailored for AoE grinding, nor whether they or you used any cooldowns. And, since you were doing Klaxxi quests, it would also be important to compare which enhancements/augmentations you were both using.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10575
Frost dk didnt go below 60% facing 8 people?

im sure those 8 people were AFK or in greens or worse...bots!!!!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10215
If you are doing dailies in your current spec, you could try adding in Lights Hammer with your normal SoR/SotR/DS. Pretty good aoe and you have heals going w/ Lights Hammer/DS/FoL as well. Aoe isn't THAT bad for leveling and questing.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
19235
Ret is not one of the worst dps specs in the game. Our sustained aoe is one of the best, and our rotation hasn't been FCFS since ICC.

You watched a DK spam howling blast. Grats on them. They were able to solo farm Firelands trash doing the same thing.

Real question; what Klaxxi enhancements were you using, and which enhancements was the DK using? In Dread Wastes I have no fear of pulling 10+ mobs, and my health barely moves.
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90 Human Paladin
8560
Stop looking for balance. It will never show it's face. This game gets more and more out of wach with each new patch/xpac.
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90 Tauren Paladin
16690
DKs are like raid bosses now on BG. You need the entire team to bring one down.


Or 1 Ret Paladin kiting them, GG DK.


Ahh what? A DK can snare a paladin for more than a paladin can snare a DK..meaning the DK can always catch up to the paladin. You probably faced a super bad DK, I destroy rets on my frost DK.
Edited by Phoenix on 10/6/2012 12:16 PM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
6135
Hasnt Ghostcrawler openly admitted multiple times that he hates paladins?

My thoughts are that basing how well a class performs in PvE based entirely off how fast you can aoe grind mobs for dailies is a silly thing to do.

Regardless of how strong ret dps is right now, that's a pretty silly seeming way to go about it imo.


Check WoL parses then. I think the only class worse than Rets are WW monks.

ROFL this is pathetic. The first Ret doesnt showed up on The Stone Guard fight until page 16 coming in at 608th place....great showing. I was gonna do the same for each boss fight but it would take forever. That means the best Ret in the World is worse than 607 players. Being 608th probably means theres a good chance a mentally handicapped person beat them.
Edited by Lilicia on 10/7/2012 8:33 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
10090
I haven't seen any real issues with soloing a massive group of 90's. When it looks rough, Truth becomes Insight, Selfless Healer procs get used immediately, Holy Prism self-casts for that extra bump every twenty seconds (and AoE damage), and if I need a little bump here or there, WoG in lieu of Divine Storm. Mix some secondary abilities like Wings, Divine Shield, Hammer of Justice, Lay on Hands (it amazes me how few Paladins actually use anything with longer than a ten second cooldown, like they have limited lifetime charges they're hording) and a mob of eight is easy-peasy.
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90 Human Paladin
7890
Hasnt Ghostcrawler openly admitted multiple times that he hates paladins?

My thoughts are that basing how well a class performs in PvE based entirely off how fast you can aoe grind mobs for dailies is a silly thing to do.

Regardless of how strong ret dps is right now, that's a pretty silly seeming way to go about it imo.


Check WoL parses then. I think the only class worse than Rets are WW monks.

ROFL this is pathetic. The first Ret doesnt showed up on The Stone Guard fight until page 16 coming in at 608th place....great showing. I was gonna do the same for each boss fight but it would take forever. That means the best Ret in the World is worse than 607 players. Being 608th probably means theres a good chance a mentally handicapped person beat them.


Wow, finally.. Someone sees what's going on around here. Ret is dead. They should just take the spec out once and for all. But then again... Who would the other classes kick out of the dungeons because of spec? ( even before they begin )?

Yes, I have been kicked out and told that it was nothing against me.. we just need better dps than your class can dish out. After a few of those, you won't care about your class anymore.
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90 Tauren Paladin
8695
We may not do the Highest DPS in the game, but we fare form the worst. if you're not able to pull at least 50k sustained in 5 man heroic gear. You're doing something wrong.
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90 Human Paladin
10280
Hasnt Ghostcrawler openly admitted multiple times that he hates paladins?



Check WoL parses then. I think the only class worse than Rets are WW monks.

ROFL this is pathetic. The first Ret doesnt showed up on The Stone Guard fight until page 16 coming in at 608th place....great showing. I was gonna do the same for each boss fight but it would take forever. That means the best Ret in the World is worse than 607 players. Being 608th probably means theres a good chance a mentally handicapped person beat them.


Wow, finally.. Someone sees what's going on around here. Ret is dead. They should just take the spec out once and for all. But then again... Who would the other classes kick out of the dungeons because of spec? ( even before they begin )?

Yes, I have been kicked out and told that it was nothing against me.. we just need better dps than your class can dish out. After a few of those, you won't care about your class anymore.


I sure hope you aren't talking about heroics, because right now Paladin burst damage is insane. Doing heroics on my Priest, I've seen pallies peak at 110k~ DPS with cools up, and averaging around 60-70k per fight. If you're getting kicked from heroics, you're doing something terribly wrong. Or, you're poorly geared, which you are. You're not hit or expertise capped yet, so your poor DPS is probably due to those reasons. Ret is FAR from terrible or "dead" right now. Admittedly not the best DPS, but definitely competitive, especially in heroics and regular raids.
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90 Human Warlock
6135


Wow, finally.. Someone sees what's going on around here. Ret is dead. They should just take the spec out once and for all. But then again... Who would the other classes kick out of the dungeons because of spec? ( even before they begin )?

Yes, I have been kicked out and told that it was nothing against me.. we just need better dps than your class can dish out. After a few of those, you won't care about your class anymore.


I sure hope you aren't talking about heroics, because right now Paladin burst damage is insane. Doing heroics on my Priest, I've seen pallies peak at 110k~ DPS with cools up, and averaging around 60-70k per fight. If you're getting kicked from heroics, you're doing something terribly wrong. Or, you're poorly geared, which you are. You're not hit or expertise capped yet, so your poor DPS is probably due to those reasons. Ret is FAR from terrible or "dead" right now. Admittedly not the best DPS, but definitely competitive, especially in heroics and regular raids.


So the definition of competitive is being the second worst DPS spec in the game only beating out WW monks?
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