Frustrations with 5.0 - Becoming a DOT class

90 Human Mage
15120
I picked a Mage because I love playing nukers. I've had my Mage since Classic, and enjoy playing it more than any other class. Alouette has been my main the entire time I have played WOW. I've got every class but Monk at 60 or over, so I do have a fair bit of experience. At my best, I raided Top 30 US back in ICC, but I'm older and have less time to play these days. My boyfriend and I now run a guild together that finished up US 321 during the Heroic Firelands tier and US 436 for Heroic Dragon Soul on an 8 hour a week weekend schedule.

I digress. The point is, I like nukers. After you added in Living Bomb in Wrath, I adapted - I went Arcane. I hate keeping track of dots and as a co-raid-leader (who is always watching the raid like a hawk) it is difficult to so while still watching all of my cooldowns and the raid (specifically for battle resurrections/debuffs most of the time).

That said, since you patched for Mists, I HATE my mage. I've had it with these gigantic playstyle changes every expansion. ALL mage specs use dots now, and Fire (which is the best PvE spec right now) has a boatload of them. All of the specs feel clunky and unintuitive. Why do you suddenly have us keeping track of way more than we used to?

Since the patch, I can't get good numbers with anything other than Fire, and only then if I can concentrate and not watch our raid and just tunnel only what I'm doing - if the RNG gods are nice enough to give me crits.

It's been this way every single expansion you have released - why can't you leave well enough alone? Just when I've spent a long time mastering it, you say ok, enough of that, and change everything. I'm forced to re-learn my character every time you release an expansion. That's ok, but now you're making me play a dot class when I picked a nuker.

I just sat myself for Elegon because I couldn't do my job well enough. As a GM, that is embarrassing. I'm embarrassed posting this too. But you have fundamentally changed my class so much from what it used to be and I hate it. I know this probably won't do anything, but I can't be the only one that feels like this.

Edit: typo
Edited by Alouette on 10/7/2012 1:56 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Mage
13690
Coming from another raiding mage to another (granted, I don't know how much raiding I'll be doing this expansion), I have to say that I have been pulling fine numbers as frost... That said, I've had to really work to make sure everything lines up perfectly. It's quite frustrating when our DPS can go down the tanker for one simple error; it's like sitting through math class for me...

I still love my mage, but I feel as though I have to work much harder than other classes for the same numbers, and that's quite frustrating. It's also quite silly that arcane, formerly our most powerful spec on stand still fights, now seems to struggle because of how much they changed the spec from Cata to now. I admit it needed a change, but I don't know if this is the way it should be.

I feel something needs to change, but I am not quite sure what. I like the concepts of everything they have now, but it does feel a little heavy. It's silly that I sit through Evocate with Invocation and, because I did something one millisecond too early, I don't get my buff.
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90 Human Mage
11765
Haven't played arcane since spine of deathwing. I've read some people saying it's more fun than it was at lvl 85.

Bomb spells are here to stay, at least until lvl 95...

Personally, I like having DoTs. I have a lock alt so, "why don't you play a lock?" is invalid :P

Frost Bomb and anything other than fire should suit you well. maybe?
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90 Human Mage
15120
Frost bomb is made for AOE packs. It's not really competitive damage during a single target encounter.

Before, my rotation was Arcane's rotation:
- Missles at a 4 stack
- Pushing Arcane Blast as much as I could while still keeping my mana up
- Manage my mana, pot timer, Arcane Power, Arcane Blast Debuff and my POM.
I could do that while watching the raid.

Now, my Fire rotation is:
- Keep Invocation up (every 40 seconds I must Evocate fully for this, am screwed and get no damage buff if I cast something even a millisecond early)
- Keep Nether Tempest DOT up (Aoe fight is worse, I have to Living Bomb/spread dots to everything)
- Have Pyroblast DOT up as much as possible
- Use Alter Time with a specific Combustion rotation to make sure that I have appropriate boss debuffs.
- Only use Combustion when I have a full set of DOTs on the target
I now manage my mana, pot timer, Combustion, Alter Time, Pyroblast debuff, and Invocation and Nether Tempest buffs/debuffs. It is a lot more attention intensive and requires specific timing for everything.

(I also use Time Warp and Mirror Image and other situational spells, but I am giving this as a rotation based comment)
Edited by Alouette on 10/7/2012 2:35 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
15120
And, sorry for double post:

A simple quality of life change would be to allow us to queue a spell after Evocation as part of the bonus you get for choosing Invocation.

Currently, casting any other spell before Evocation's channel ends cancels Evocation. This means you lose out on your spellpower debuff.

Anyone wanting to maximize DPS queues their spells, and with Evocation being so frequent in the Invocation spec, this would be greatly appreciated.
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This is clearly blizzard's revenge for pulling 60k at level 80.
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90 Goblin Mage
13690
You only listed two real changes to fire's rotation, being Alter Time and Invocation; we already did most of that.

I'm sure most of the grief for how we are now would fade with a simple fix to increase the quality of life with the level 90 talents. Again, the ending Invocation early is a pain. Not sure what could or even should be done regarding the other two.

That said, when I do everything right, and don't mess up with Invocation, I feel really good about not screwing up.
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90 Undead Mage
16400
10/07/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Alouette
I'm forced to re-learn my character every time you release an expansion.


I completely agree, this is very very annoying. I don't like that every spec has a dot now either. I have been contemplating another class lately, thinking about shadowpriests.

Mages damage isn't bad at all, on the contrary, but I just don't really like the way the class has turned out so far. It isn't as fun to play anymore.
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90 Goblin Mage
13690
I just don't feel that one dot in arcane or frost spec is a game breaker for me. I personally love the crap out of Frost Bomb for Frost. It's reliable to give a BF when you need it, you can blow it up early if glyphed... I'm happy with bombs, and I've been playing mage since '05.
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90 Undead Mage
7600
10/07/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Slatra
Haven't played arcane since spine of deathwing. I've read some people saying it's more fun than it was at lvl 85.


And who would that be? Cause I certainly don't see anyone playing Arcane any more. Where are all these people who like Arcane now and are playing it?
Edited by Sethmann on 10/7/2012 4:02 PM PDT
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90 Gnome Mage
11440
Frost bomb is made for AOE packs. It's not really competitive damage during a single target encounter.


Actually it is competitive. The maths have been done and all three bombs pretty much break even.

Good news for you, since it's not a dot. Just think of it as a very slow moving, invisible, hard hitting frostbolt.

As for a raid setting, you can just make a /castsequence macro to handle it, and your rotation will feel exactly the same as it was before the expansion.
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90 Undead Mage
7600


As for a raid setting, you can just make a /castsequence macro to handle it, and your rotation will feel exactly the same as it was before the expansion.


How would you know? You raided once, as Frost.

http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/thunderhorn/zoom/
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90 Worgen Mage
0
I've always been a fan of arcane, used to do it a lot until DS I could bump my numbers up 10K swapping to (and relearning) fire. Now, with arcane back, I gave it a try, I really did... But invocation is just bad for arcane, RoP makes it too immobile, and hadn't tried IW (Not sure why I didn't). Arcane now is... it has issues. 4-5 casts of blast don't dent your mana, but do ONE at 5 or 6 and you lose over 10% of your mana. it's too much of a hassle to maintain ~90% mana AND pay attention to dpsing the right target AND moving out of bad AND keeping up RoP AND using alter time at the right time AND keeping up the way too short DOT.
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90 Gnome Mage
11440


As for a raid setting, you can just make a /castsequence macro to handle it, and your rotation will feel exactly the same as it was before the expansion.


How would you know? You raided once, as Frost.

http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/thunderhorn/zoom/


That has no impact on my point, though. I don't have time to raid, but I know how to play frost and I know how to make macros.

Cast sequence macros are pretty simple to do. You can make one that combines frost bomb and frostbolts together so that you would never have to even think about managing frost bomb.
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90 Undead Mage
7600
That has no impact on my point, though. I don't have time to raid, but I know how to play frost and I know how to make macros.


You don't have clue one on how to kill scripted dragons. Please, it's like walking into a thread about PvP@2300 and saying all you have to do is spam spellsteal and sheep the DK....
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90 Gnome Mage
11440
10/07/2012 04:31 PMPosted by Sethmann
That has no impact on my point, though. I don't have time to raid, but I know how to play frost and I know how to make macros.


You don't have clue one on how to kill scripted dragons. Please, it's like walking into a thread about PvP@2300 and saying all you have to do is spam spellsteal and sheep the DK....


Did I somehow tick you off?

That link you posted is a little bit off. I have been in more raids that what it lists. But whether I've been in a raid or not has absolutely no bearing on what I'm saying here, and the fact that you can't understand that baffles me.

The OP is complaining about having to manage a bomb. All I'm saying is that with the use of a /castsequence macro, you can integrate frost bomb while never having to manage it.

Frost, for example, can use this:

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 frost bomb, frostbolt, frostbolt, frostbolt, frostbolt


The number on the reset will need to be fine-tuned depending on your haste, and I can't remember off the top of my head if you need that forth frostbolt in the line or not, but you get the basic idea. You use this button instead of your frostbolt button, so that way you never have to even think about casting frost bomb. Voila! Pre-MoP gameplay restored!

Just adjust the macro to your spec, popping the main nuke in there and you're good to go.

Obviously this macro is only good in situations where you don't have to be careful with your bombs, so outside of raids/dungeons you probably won't want to use it. But if managing a bomb is too much for you in a raid situation (which it obviously is for the OP, as she stated so), then using this macro is great for raid bosses.

Now please tell me how my lack of raid experience changes the validity of anything I just said?
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90 Undead Mage
7600
10/07/2012 05:19 PMPosted by Zoom
Now please tell me how my lack of raid experience changes the validity of anything I just said?


If you want to be good at DPS, you don't use a cast sequence macro. You learn how and when to use your spells and adjust what spells you use as the situation demands.
Edited by Sethmann on 10/7/2012 5:57 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Druid
11625
10/07/2012 05:57 PMPosted by Sethmann
Now please tell me how my lack of raid experience changes the validity of anything I just said?


If you want to be good at DPS, you don't use a cast sequence macro. You learn how and when to use your spells and adjust what spells you use as the situation demands.


You are stupid.
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90 Goblin Mage
13690
10/07/2012 05:57 PMPosted by Sethmann
If you want to be good at DPS, you don't use a cast sequence macro. You learn how and when to use your spells and adjust what spells you use as the situation demands.


"I refuse your logic and substitute it with my own."
Edited by Lynox on 10/7/2012 6:19 PM PDT
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