Frustrations with 5.0 - Becoming a DOT class

85 Human Mage
7235
10/07/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Alouette
Since the patch, I can't get good numbers with anything other than Fire, and only then if I can concentrate and not watch our raid and just tunnel only what I'm doing - if the RNG gods are nice enough to give me crits.


Then you aren't playing them right. All Mage specs are fairly powerful right now.

Also, Fire has been a DoT spec for a very long time now o.o
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100 Troll Mage
14875
I wanted to play my mage so bad since I heard frost was viable. Now just running 5 man content I feel like I am doing 5x's the work as the rest of the group for the same dps output. Admittedly it is still new to me, and I hope that in time it will be easier to manage. I just don't think I want to work as hard as I am for minimal reward.
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90 Human Mage
7415


As for a raid setting, you can just make a /castsequence macro to handle it, and your rotation will feel exactly the same as it was before the expansion.


How would you know? You raided once, as Frost.

http://www.raidbots.com/epeenbot/us/thunderhorn/zoom/


You are an idiot for posting raidbots....you realize that only pulls off of World of Logs right???? please get more then 1 third party website's opinion before revealing your !@#.
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10/07/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Slatra
Haven't played arcane since spine of deathwing. I've read some people saying it's more fun than it was at lvl 85.

It's not.
The people who say Arcane is more fun now are the people who played Fire/Frost in Cata and are continuing to play Fire/Frost in MoP. You'll find very, very few people who like the Arcane changes AND actually play the spec now.

Also, wtf are you guys talking about with /castsequence macros? Almost everything you do screws it up so you don't reapply the bomb at the right time. FoF screws it up, Brain Freeze screws it up, lvl90 talents screw it up, moving in any way screws it up. Doing a combination of those things delays reapplication even further.
You're not doing competitive DPS with /castsequence.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
8070
Also, wtf are you guys talking about with /castsequence macros? Almost everything you do screws it up so you don't reapply the bomb at the right time. FoF screws it up, Brain Freeze screws it up, lvl90 talents screw it up, moving in any way screws it up. Doing a combination of those things delays reapplication even further.


How do any of those things screw up the macro he posted? It resets at the cooldown of Frost Bomb.
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90 Human Mage
15170
Since the patch, I can't get good numbers with anything other than Fire, and only then if I can concentrate and not watch our raid and just tunnel only what I'm doing - if the RNG gods are nice enough to give me crits.


Then you aren't playing them right. All Mage specs are fairly powerful right now.

Also, Fire has been a DoT spec for a very long time now o.o

I have responsibilities other than my DPS. This has dumped a lot more on me, management wise. Arcane is a lot of micromanagement now, and it's not feasible for me to remain the spec I was. Again, I said I avoided playing a DOT class when they introduced Living Bomb by switching to Arcane. You seem to have conveniently ignored that bit of info.

I'm well aware others have had success post changes, but they are typically those that have been playing DOT based specs. Do you know any mage that played Arcane for the last expansion that is enjoying the changes and raids (as Arcane) at a high end level? That does competitive DPS?

Also, the primary thing I am complaining about is how they have changed the feel of my class. I miss being a nuker.
Edited by Alouette on 10/7/2012 8:33 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
7680
Frost is very competitive dps. The dot aspect isn't really there with frost bomb (cast it off cd but it isn't a dot). Invocation is nifty but rune of power and incanter's shield are definitely usable. If you don't want to clip evocation, try a [nochanneling] macro paired with a shift or equivalent modifier.
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90 Gnome Mage
11450
10/07/2012 05:57 PMPosted by Sethmann
Now please tell me how my lack of raid experience changes the validity of anything I just said?


If you want to be good at DPS, you don't use a cast sequence macro. You learn how and when to use your spells and adjust what spells you use as the situation demands.


In general, I would agree with you. In this specific instance, however, the /castsequence macro not only works just as well as doing it manually, but it keeps you from falling behind if you're not prone to managing bomb up-times very well.

You always want to make sure to cast frost bomb when it's off cooldown. The /castsequence macro makes sure you do that, without ever having to think about it. It keeps you in top performance, it doesn't make you perform poorly.

And if you need to refrain from using the bomb in specific situations, then naturally you don't push the macro button. You push the plain ol' frostbolt (or whatever your main nuke is) button. That's a no-brainer.
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90 Undead Mage
10800
I agree that it feels as if there is a lot more work going into the class to manage your DPS. My Mage is stressful to play at times, especially if I miss an Invocation. We just had a 0% wipe on Feng today (1.8mil HP) and I had a combination of bad RNG and I messed up a bunch of CD's and procs that fight just trying to manage the raid and myself at the same time. Granted this is the first time I am a guild and raid leader for progression so I am getting used to it, but I still feel bad for it as I need to practice my class so it becomes second nature more. Went from 55-65k DPS to 41k. It is harsh punishment, but on the plus side, if you manage everything correctly, you are topping charts by a good %. Just again, something you need to get used to.
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90 Gnome Mage
11450
Also, wtf are you guys talking about with /castsequence macros? Almost everything you do screws it up so you don't reapply the bomb at the right time. FoF screws it up, Brain Freeze screws it up, lvl90 talents screw it up, moving in any way screws it up. Doing a combination of those things delays reapplication even further.
You're not doing competitive DPS with /castsequence.


The "reset=8" part of the macro makes sure you go back to frost bomb when it comes off cooldown, regardless if you've completed the full /castsequence. So you can cast frost bomb, move, pop off a frostfire bolt, move again, evocate, etc, and if the 8 seconds have passed, the macro will revert to frost bomb, even though you never casted a single frostbolt in the sequence. Obviously you need to set the number of seconds for the macro to reset based on your haste.

In this particular instance, /castsequence does exactly what you would be doing manually, so there is no difference in DPS at all.
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100 Undead Mage
9635
10/07/2012 06:12 PMPosted by Panduh
You are stupid.


Says the guy with a toon named "Mylitlpwny"....

10/07/2012 07:49 PMPosted by Gwarrâr
You are an idiot for posting raidbots....you realize that only pulls off of World of Logs right???? please get more then 1 third party website's opinion before revealing your !@#.


Christ....

First, World of Logs lets anyone upload to them, however I acknowledge that not everyone uses them, however the person in question obviously participated in one that did for that toon he posted on, otherwise I wouldn't have posted his results.

Second, worldoflogs is not opinion, it's what he actually did on those fights. An opinion would be me saying he's bad. See a derived conclusion from evidence is what an opinion is. World of Logs is just evidence.
Edited by Sethmann on 10/8/2012 12:00 AM PDT
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100 Undead Mage
9635
You always want to make sure to cast frost bomb when it's off cooldown. The /castsequence macro makes sure you do that, without ever having to think about it. It keeps you in top performance, it doesn't make you perform poorly.


10/07/2012 10:19 PMPosted by Zoom
The "reset=8" part of the macro makes sure you go back to frost bomb when it comes off cooldown, regardless if you've completed the full /castsequence.


You obviously don't understand how castsequence's reset countdown works.

Every time you press the macro it resets the countdown.

Frostbomb
Frostbolt
Frostbolt
8 seconds from now it will reset, you wanted it to reset in 4.

Or..
Frostbomb
Ice Lance
Frostbolt
Ice Lance
Frostbolt
You want to Frost Bomb now, but can't, cause your stupid castsequence macro doesn't have it up.
Edited by Sethmann on 10/7/2012 11:53 PM PDT
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100 Worgen Mage
18625
I don't think the bombs are going to change, but I anticipate QoL tweaks for the level 90 talents. There's been a lot of good suggestions made in beta and now here on the Mage board.

Yeah, there's a lot more to watch. Do what you can with addons to make life easier. Pick IW if there's damage going out at a reasonable interval. That talent's easy to use and has the best QoL currently. Mage Nuggets now has a good Frost Bomb tracker and Invocation timer.

Can't comment on Arcane with live encounters yet. On beta, I felt the spec was a bit too difficult for a human being to come anywhere close to playing to the sims, at least not as close as Fire which is easy to maximize. Frost is in between. Could see Arcane getting tweaks too if it gets neglected this tier. It's bothersome enough that we don't have a tri-spec and I'd have to change my keybinds around every time I wanted to pick it up, not to mention my pure crit gems and Worgen racial which doesn't benefit Arcane as much. If I was Troll, it'd be a whole different ballgame.
Edited by Digerati on 10/8/2012 12:30 AM PDT
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90 Goblin Mage
13690
It's not.
The people who say Arcane is more fun now are the people who played Fire/Frost in Cata and are continuing to play Fire/Frost in MoP. You'll find very, very few people who like the Arcane changes AND actually play the spec now.


It is more fun, and the only reason I'm not arcane is because it's easier to share gear between fire and frost. Personally, I love arcane's playstyle more than fire's... But again, gear sharing.
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100 Undead Mage
9635
10/08/2012 12:27 AMPosted by Lynox
I'm not arcane


Were you Arcane at 4.0.3a to 4.0.6?
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90 Goblin Mage
13690
10/08/2012 01:13 AMPosted by Sethmann
Were you Arcane at 4.0.3a to 4.0.6?


Yeap.
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90 Human Mage
7415
First, World of Logs lets anyone upload to them, however I acknowledge that not everyone uses them, however the person in question obviously participated in one that did for that toon he posted on, otherwise I wouldn't have posted his results.

Second, worldoflogs is not opinion, it's what he actually did on those fights. An opinion would be me saying he's bad. See a derived conclusion from evidence is what an opinion is. World of Logs is just evidence.


Umm... not everyone being the majority of guilds...only hardcore guilds tend to parse their raids. As the person you were insulting said he's not hardcore just a casual player. and dear god ONE raid does not indicate whether the person is bad or not. ive had some of my best dps perform terribly on certain nights for various reasons.

And personally i dont see how you can call anyone bad, normally i dont stoop to armory attacks, but seriously dude....come on.

But regardless, OP just try harder...If i can do it as a mediocre player i'm sure you'll be fine, we are only in week 2 of the expac.
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90 Gnome Mage
11450
10/07/2012 11:50 PMPosted by Sethmann
You always want to make sure to cast frost bomb when it's off cooldown. The /castsequence macro makes sure you do that, without ever having to think about it. It keeps you in top performance, it doesn't make you perform poorly.


10/07/2012 10:19 PMPosted by Zoom
The "reset=8" part of the macro makes sure you go back to frost bomb when it comes off cooldown, regardless if you've completed the full /castsequence.


You obviously don't understand how castsequence's reset countdown works.

Every time you press the macro it resets the countdown.

Frostbomb
Frostbolt
Frostbolt
8 seconds from now it will reset, you wanted it to reset in 4.

Or..
Frostbomb
Ice Lance
Frostbolt
Ice Lance
Frostbolt
You want to Frost Bomb now, but can't, cause your stupid castsequence macro doesn't have it up.


Go make the macro and try it for yourself. You might be surprised at the results.

I tinkered around trying different macro setups, just to see what I could do. When I make a macro, I hit the training dummy and do everything I can to "break" it. This macro works great. During testing, I kept a plain frostbomb button next to the macro on the action bar, so I could monitor that the macro was resetting precisely when the bomb cooldown was up. Regardless what I did or didn't do, the macro always reset at the right time.

But hey, you say it doesn't work like that, so I'll give way to your wisdom and disregard the results of my own testing.
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what dots are we keeping up as arcane mages?
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#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 frost bomb, frostbolt, frostbolt, frostbolt, frostbolt

Nice macro, I like to open with frostbolt shatter combo though.

Also. I thought castsequence doesn't account for preloading spells so You don't miss out on time while casting?
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