I rolled a DPS class to DPS

85 Night Elf Druid
6055
10/04/2012 07:40 AMPosted by Fireinice
Would rather the tank toP the dps and hold aggro then not topping it and me dieing from pulling aggro


A tank does not need to do a single amount of damage if they adjust threat high enough.

EQ2 Tanks SUCK !@# soloing cause their damage if pitiful, but good luck trying to get any mob off them
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
A tank does not need to do a single amount of damage if they adjust threat high enough.

EQ2 Tanks SUCK !@# soloing cause their damage if pitiful, but good luck trying to get any mob off them


Good job reading absolutely nothing in the thread.
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90 Human Paladin
13525
Most of these posts defending ridiculous tank damage amount to "don't nerf me, bro."

I'm particularly confused by the "better gear will fix it argument," as if the only thing that matters is how tanks play for those who are well into raiding. 90% of this game, at least, is not raiding, and if tanks are broken 90% of the time, then that needs to be fixed.

Also, the "better gear will fix it" argument acknowledges that tanks shouldn't be topping meters. In fact, one of you is fond of posting that if tanks continued to top meters in raid, that would be a problem. Why then and not now? If better gear will fix it, why not just fix it, period, so it isn't borked the rest of the time?

My current lowbie tank typically does 50-60% of the dps in any instance. That's not right, and it has to feel crappy for the "dps."
Edited by Carmageddon on 10/9/2012 12:34 AM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
13525
Also, I want to see the rationale for high tank damage. Since, as one those defending it posted, "tank damage doesn't matter," then what is the problem with nerfing it? Could it be that tanks are...enjoying destroying the dps meters?

Hmmm. So, when dps want to top the dps meters we need to "stop worrying about recount," but when tanks want to top the dps meters it's a different story.
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
10/09/2012 12:32 AMPosted by Carmageddon
Also, I want to see the rationale for high tank damage.

Again:

-High damage is more gratifying. Clearly. People like putting up big numbers. It's fun. If it wasn't an issue this thread obviously wouldn't exist.
-Higher damage means tanks have a better time soloing !@#$ when they want to do dailies.
-The way the scaling is slated it makes it easier to tune tank threat in the future (compared to stupid %^-* they've had to do in the past like the icy touch shenanigans in wrath).

So, when dps want to top the dps meters we need to "stop worrying about recount," but when tanks want to top the dps meters it's a different story.


The difference here is that one group wants to redesign the game so they can feel better about their performance on recount, the other group realizes it doesn't actually amount to anything.
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90 Human Paladin
13525
tank DPS is irrelevant to the encounter...


Excellent! So we agree! So you shouldn't care when they nerf it!
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90 Human Paladin
13525
10/09/2012 12:37 AMPosted by Aureus
Also, I want to see the rationale for high tank damage.

Again:

-High damage is more gratifying. Clearly. People like putting up big numbers. It's fun. If it wasn't an issue this thread obviously wouldn't exist.
-Higher damage means tanks have a better time soloing !@#$ when they want to do dailies.
-The way the scaling is slated it makes it easier to tune tank threat in the future (compared to stupid %^-* they've had to do in the past like the icy touch shenanigans in wrath).

So, when dps want to top the dps meters we need to "stop worrying about recount," but when tanks want to top the dps meters it's a different story.


The difference here is that one group wants to redesign the game so they can feel better about their performance on recount, the other group realizes it doesn't actually amount to anything.


Are you even aware that you last statement completely contradicts your first?

"Higher damage is more gratifying"..."the other group [tanks] realizes it doesn't actually amount to anything."

So, if it doesn't amount to anything for tanks, then what is the problem with it being nerfed? And yes, we do want the current version of vengeance redesigned. And it looks like a fix is in the works. So yay - since you realize tank dps doesn't amount to anything, we all win!
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0

Are you even aware that you last statement completely contradicts your first?

Try reading again.

"Higher damage is more gratifying"..."the other group [tanks] realizes it doesn't actually amount to anything."

Doesn't amount to anything from a balancing perspective. I thought that would be obvious.

So, if it doesn't amount to anything for tanks, then what is the problem with it being nerfed?

Because it removes all of the benefits I Just mentioned without adding anything good.
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4 Undead Warlock
0

-High damage is more gratifying. Clearly. People like putting up big numbers. It's fun. If it wasn't an issue this thread obviously wouldn't exist.


Clearly the tanks should put up better bigger numbers than dps then. Tank fun is all that is relevant.


-Higher damage means tanks have a better time soloing !@#$ when they want to do dailies.


All tanks have a dps spec. Switch to that for daily quests. Besides, at the moment tanks have high dps and survivability - they can pull the whole zone at once, kill everything quicker than a real dps and survive it all. That's clearly fair and balanced.

Tank damage could be halved and they'd still have no problems with daily quests.

-The way the scaling is slated it makes it easier to tune tank threat in the future (compared to stupid %^-* they've had to do in the past like the icy touch shenanigans in wrath).


What a load of bollocks.
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100 Human Paladin
17840
It's not a load of bollocks at all. Tank threat/damage barely scales with gear whereas DPS scales incredibly well with gear.

The damage tanks are doing in heroics right now is likely to stay the same throughout the entire expansion. The only difference will be if tanks pull more packs later on at once, therefore getting hit harder, thus doing more damage.

Tank damage scales from how hard the mobs hit, not from gear.
Edited by Perseus on 10/9/2012 5:22 AM PDT
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4 Undead Warlock
0
It's not a load of bollocks at all. Tank threat/damage barely scales with gear whereas DPS scales incredibly well with gear.

The damage tanks are doing in heroics right now is likely to stay the same throughout the entire expansion. The only difference will be if tanks pull more packs later on at once, therefore getting hit harder, thus doing more damage.

Tank damage scales from how hard the mobs hit, not from gear.


It's bollocks because they could quite easily fix threat scaling with gear by linking the threat modifier to stats on the gear, rather than directly to damage done. There are many, many ways they could ensure threat scaled with gear upgrades through means that don't raise damage to such stupid levels.
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100 Human Paladin
13775
10/09/2012 05:32 AMPosted by Dessan
It's bollocks because they could quite easily fix threat scaling with gear by linking the threat modifier to stats on the gear, rather than directly to damage done. There are many, many ways they could ensure threat scaled with gear upgrades through means that don't raise damage to such stupid levels.


It's not bollocks because there's nothing broken to fix, and leaving it the way it is doesn't hurt anyone. The encounters are designed around the way it is right now. There's just no need to change them.
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100 Human Warlock
20305
10/09/2012 12:28 AMPosted by Carmageddon
Most of these posts defending ridiculous tank damage amount to "don't nerf me, bro."

Not really. Blizzard says the damage is meeting the goal. I linked the post on like page 2. Tanks say "it's fine, I don't get what the big deal is about."

It's your job to explain why Tank damage being high, with the encounter designed around that level of Tank damage, is a problem. "Because they're higher than DPS," is not a reason. "Because it doesn't need to be that high," could be argued, but is kind of a moot point; Blizzard felt it needed to be this high, so we're past the point of "needing" to be at a certain level.

Prove it causes a problem. That's all you have to do.

I'll wait.

Edit: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794029542

There you go, read it again. Note specifically the number of complaints elsewhere in the forums about Blood DK damage being too high. Then note how Blizzard feels about DK damage compared to the others.
Edited by Serinicas on 10/9/2012 6:36 AM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
10/09/2012 12:28 AMPosted by Carmageddon
Most of these posts defending ridiculous tank damage amount to "don't nerf me, bro."


Heh, whereas all the opposition amounts to "I'm butthurt 'cause I can't place first on the meters during the first 2 weeks of the expansion."

Cry me a river.

10/09/2012 12:28 AMPosted by Carmageddon
I'm particularly confused by the "better gear will fix it argument," as if the only thing that matters is how tanks play for those who are well into raiding. 90% of this game, at least, is not raiding, and if tanks are broken 90% of the time, then that needs to be fixed.


I'm particularly confused by the "this is broken" argument, as if the only thing that matters is your place on Skada.

10/09/2012 12:32 AMPosted by Carmageddon
Also, I want to see the rationale for high tank damage. Since, as one those defending it posted, "tank damage doesn't matter," then what is the problem with nerfing it?


Conversely, what's the problem with leaving it as it is?

10/09/2012 12:32 AMPosted by Carmageddon
Hmmm. So, when dps want to top the dps meters we need to "stop worrying about recount," but when tanks want to top the dps meters it's a different story.


No, this still boils down to "stop worrying about recount." Or rather - stop worrying what the tank is doing, since you're not competing with him anyway.

10/09/2012 12:40 AMPosted by Carmageddon
tank DPS is irrelevant to the encounter...


Excellent! So we agree! So you shouldn't care when they nerf it!


That's a rather trivial statement. You can just do a 180 and invalidate it.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
10/09/2012 12:40 AMPosted by Carmageddon
Excellent! So we agree! So you shouldn't care when they nerf it!


To quote another: I've yet to see a reason for nerfing tank DPS that doesn't amount to "they're ahead of me".
Edited by Rijdot on 10/9/2012 7:18 AM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
13010
So basically you guys are trying to say its ok for the tank to feel good about themselves being on top and the dps to be demoralized and feel useless by the poor numbers they are putting out in comparison? I mean that's pretty much how it feels while leveling on my druid, I will be top of the dps'ers doing maybe 500dps and the tank will be doing what 2k at lvl 50? I mean sure its mostly AoE but so is my damage. Either way I don't find that fun or worthwhile at all and quite honestly it feels broken as hell yet blizzard seems to think that's how they want it to be, so I just stopped playing it...

Surely they can't just transfer some of that tank damage into increased threat so nothing really changes encounter wise..
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100 Troll Mage
17020
So basically you guys are trying to say its ok for the tank to feel good about themselves being on top and the dps to be demoralized and feel useless by the poor numbers they are putting out in comparison? I mean that's pretty much how it feels while leveling on my druid, I will be top of the dps'ers doing maybe 500dps and the tank will be doing what 2k at lvl 50? I mean sure its mostly AoE but so is my damage. Either way I don't find that fun or worthwhile at all and quite honestly it feels broken as hell yet blizzard seems to think that's how they want it to be, so I just stopped playing it...

Surely they can't just transfer some of that tank damage into increased threat so nothing really changes encounter wise..


No that is what some are saying but its still a faulty argument, there is no reason why a tank should do lesser or more damage, so there is no point in changing it from what it currently is.

No ones role is being invalidated. And as long as that is the case then it doesn't matter.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
10/09/2012 12:37 AMPosted by Aureus
-Higher damage means tanks have a better time soloing !@#$ when they want to do dailies.


Ahaha, yeah, except, the only reason we are doing so much damage in these raids is because of vengeance, which we can only get tiny amounts of while soloing!
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
10/09/2012 08:57 AMPosted by Abracadaver
Surely they can't just transfer some of that tank damage into increased threat so nothing really changes encounter wise..


Nothing IS changing encounter wise for what this type of damage is based around.
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