I rolled a DPS class to DPS

90 Gnome Warlock
8630

If I came in heroics on my mage and out tanked the tanks or out healed the healers then these forums would be EXPLODING with QQ.


I've outtanked a warrior in several of the heroics with my hunter pet. Our guild's blood DK has made a healer irrelevant with his own healing and basically had us four DPS a few of them.

No one cares because they're just heroics and Vengeance is crazy right now.


That is so true about blood dks. It's not the dps that's irrelevant; it's heals. In fact, you could probably clear all content with 5 blood dks.
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90 Human Warlock
4915
Let me get this straight. Someone else's class is making your instances run smooth and quick and you are !@#$%ing about it, because your name isn't always on the top of some meaningless list of people who you will likely never see again?

At lest the tank is doing their job. It's an extreme rarity for me to find a random group where less than 3 people are heavily carried by everyone else.
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10/04/2012 07:46 AMPosted by Lockenspiel
Someone else's class is making your instances run smooth


Well then why not give all dps massive HP and mitigation bonuses so they can tank as well as raid healing on par with the main spec'd healers since that would make the instance run smooth as well?

10/04/2012 07:46 AMPosted by Lockenspiel
At lest the tank is doing their job.


The tanks job is to tank, not do top dps in the raid....that's the dps's job.
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90 Troll Mage
15790
10/04/2012 10:22 AMPosted by Elgreezy
The tanks job is to tank, not do top dps in the raid....that's the dps's job.


Which means they are going above and beyond there job.
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10/04/2012 11:32 AMPosted by Hiroran
The tanks job is to tank, not do top dps in the raid....that's the dps's job.


Which means they are going above and beyond there job.


No it means the game is unbalanced and tank damage needs to be nerfed.
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90 Worgen Warrior
8735
10/04/2012 11:32 AMPosted by Hiroran
The tanks job is to tank, not do top dps in the raid....that's the dps's job.


Which means they are going above and beyond there job.


I know. How commendable of those Blood Dks to apply their diseases on every pull.
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90 Troll Mage
15790
10/04/2012 12:24 PMPosted by Elgreezy
No it means the game is unbalanced and tank damage needs to be nerfed.


Fyi, I said that in half joking manner lol.

So say I play my ele shaman, should I refuse to pop any of the 3 healing cooldowns they give all shamans through talents because I am not the healer?

Should I never pop defensive cooldowsn because I am not the tank or healer so I shouldn't worry about my survivability?
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90 Undead Warlock
12910
Turn off Skada/Recount.

Issue fixed. This is a fun expansion. The damage doesn't matter.

Grow up.


Without moving any further, I must chuckle at this.

I take it you don't raid or do much else outside of 5-mans? Damage and damage-per-second will ALWAYS matter, to everyone, for everything worth putting effort into. Don't act like being subpar is somehow "enjoying the game more".
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90 Troll Mage
15790
Without moving any further, I must chuckle at this.

I take it you don't raid or do much else outside of 5-mans? Damage and damage-per-second will ALWAYS matter, to everyone, for everything worth putting effort into. Don't act like being subpar is somehow "enjoying the game more".


Except the point of his message is correct, the person shouldn't be worry about what others are doing if things are dieing quickly and without issues. This is the case for all levels of gear/raiding.
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It won't stay like this, Tanks will get nerfed or gear will scale passed it. Just give it some time.
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4 Blood Elf Warlock
0
10/04/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Hiroran
Except the point of his message is correct, the person shouldn't be worry about what others are doing if things are dieing quickly and without issues. This is the case for all levels of gear/raiding.


I agree with you to a point. Have fun, clear content. We see eye to eye!

Historically the benchmark has been the tank's damage is at the bottom. If you're beating the tank in DPS then you're probably playing your class right. If you're beating the mage, you're doing really well!

So if the point of heroics is to L2P nub, and get ready for raids, then this change is sending us the wrong message. Or at least a confusing one. When a Damage Class expects the Tank to be a baseline for damage and the tank is soaring above them it tends to make you wonder what is going on here?
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90 Gnome Warlock
7990
There are two issues with this.

1) Blood DK is by far the best tank to take because not only do they have good tanking abilities they can also apply a ton of DPS to be able to clear content faster. This means if your comp doesnt have a Blood DK you are screwed. (Ask Blood Legion)

2) The whole point of having roles is so that you can do your role to the best of your ability. If the tank is out healing the healer what role are you really playing? If the DPS is out tanking? What good is the tank?

We pick a specialization based on how we want to play. Now if I role Demonology and start tanking how many of those tanks I run a dungeon with are going to leave? Why because their expectation is that they will tank. That is the job they want to do. So we as a DPS say we want to dps then we would like the tools to do that effectively. Not have a Tank do it better.
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90 Undead Warlock
12910
10/04/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Fhaelyn
It won't stay like this, Tanks will get nerfed or gear will scale passed it. Just give it some time.


Well, certainly

Without moving any further, I must chuckle at this.

I take it you don't raid or do much else outside of 5-mans? Damage and damage-per-second will ALWAYS matter, to everyone, for everything worth putting effort into. Don't act like being subpar is somehow "enjoying the game more".


Except the point of his message is correct, the person shouldn't be worry about what others are doing if things are dieing quickly and without issues. This is the case for all levels of gear/raiding.


Shouldn't

See, that's where the issue lies.

When did the mentality shift from "if the tank is NEARING your DPS, you need help" to "eh, it's easy, just go with it". You can't take almost 7 years of a standard and all of a sudden act like it's a storm that will soon blow over.

If we're back to world of AOE-craft, that's fine, but let's look at where 'Damage Dealing Classes' are in that equation.
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90 Troll Mage
15790
10/04/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Krowten
So if the point of heroics is to L2P nub, and get ready for raids, then this change is sending us the wrong message. Or at least a confusing one. When a Damage Class expects the Tank to be a baseline for damage and the tank is soaring above them it tends to make you wonder what is going on here?


But the thing is that they shouldn't be looking at the tank and assume they should be doing more than him. You can only have 1 maybe a 2nd tank before any additional tanks dps is terrible so a dps would be more beneficial. A player learning there class should be unaffected by how well others are doing.

When did the mentality shift from "if the tank is NEARING your DPS, you need help" to "eh, it's easy, just go with it". You can't take almost 7 years of a standard and all of a sudden act like it's a storm that will soon blow over.

If we're back to world of AOE-craft, that's fine, but let's look at where 'Damage Dealing Classes' are in that equation.


I am not entirely sure what your argument is tbh. Its the mentality that people have about what people should and shouldn't be doing. A dps should just be doing the most they can do, if its less than another class that doesn't mean they are a worse player, just like the tanks. People shouldn't see a tank doing better and assume then that they as a dps are doing badly. Just like a mage shouldn't see a spirit piece when they are in DS and assume they shouldn't touch it. My example is the hm yor'sahj dagger or HM ultraxion offhand.

People should change there expectations when it comes to the game. Do I think tanks shouldn't be number 1? Yes completely, do I think it hurts or invalidates my role in the game? No way.
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90 Troll Mage
15790
Sorry if anything I say sounds abrasive or anything like that, thats just the way I talk, so sorry. If i say anything that offends or demeans someone i pretty much never did it intentionally.

I only mention this because people have misunderstood me many times.
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90 Worgen Warlock
7200
Tanks out-DPSed me till i got to about 450 ilvl. Hasnt happened since.
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10/04/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Hiroran
So say I play my ele shaman, should I refuse to pop any of the 3 healing cooldowns they give all shamans through talents because I am not the healer?


As an ele shaman you should feel free to pop whatever healing CDs you think will help your raid beat a given encounter. However, that doesn't mean you should be ranking top 10 healing in the world as an ele shaman when doing so.

10/04/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Stonedsoul
Tanks out-DPSed me till i got to about 450 ilvl. Hasnt happened since.


You're not playing with good tanks then.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu'shan_Vaults/dps/

4 out of 6 bosses have tanks in the top 10 in dps. To put that in perspective for you afflition locks only rank in the top 10 on 2 out of 6 bosses.
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90 Human Paladin
13675
It only really matters if one of two things happen:

1. Where tank DPS is so absurd that you can actually remove a DPSer from the raid and add a healer. This is bad. Blood DK's might be an offender here, because of the massive healing as well. It remains to be seen. Prot Paladin and Prot Warrior DPS was reduced recently (single target fo pallies, AoE for warriors).

2. Where you can replace DPS with extra tanks (beyond 2 total tanks) and achieve extra raid DPS. This is also bad.

This would be the same thing as tanks or DPS classes having such absurd heals that you could remove a healer and add an extra DPSer. It's not a problem UNLESS you infringe on someone else's role to the extent that they become irrelevant. (Note: this is currently what's happening in 5-mans with Blood DKs not needing a healer).
Edited by Dekkar on 10/4/2012 2:36 PM PDT
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90 Undead Death Knight
8900
This goes away with gear. GC even stated this during beta that Tanks are going to be dealing more damage than DPS early on and it will completely go away once people start getting gear.

Vengeance exists so tanks have a choice between helping do actually meaningful damage or spend resources on surviving. Doing no damage sucks, its boring and I'm glad that style of tanking is gone forever.
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90 Troll Mage
15790
It only really matters if one of two things happen:

1. Where tank DPS is so absurd that you can actually remove a DPSer from the raid and add a healer. This is bad. Blood DK's might be an offender here, because of the massive healing as well. It remains to be seen. Prot Paladin and Prot Warrior DPS was reduced recently (single target fo pallies, AoE for warriors).

2. Where you can replace DPS with extra tanks (beyond 2 total tanks) and achieve extra raid DPS. This is also bad.

This would be the same thing as tanks or DPS classes having such absurd heals that you could remove a healer and add an extra DPSer. It's not a problem UNLESS you infringe on someone else's role to the extent that they become irrelevant. (Note: this is currently what's happening in 5-mans with Blood DKs not needing a healer).


I agree with this, although in 5 mans a healer could still be needed for the dps to heal themselves.
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