New LFD loot system

90 Human Warrior
8425
Five people went into the dungeon.

Five people helped defeat the boss.

Five people have an equal claim to what the boss drops.

Dice determine ownership.

Ownership does not exist until an item is in someone's inventory.

End of story.


Wrong.

5 people enter the dungeon.

1 is a tank.

1 person should be able to roll need on tanking items.

All others ask if the tank needs it or not, then rolls need or greed.

Don't like it? GTFO.

Edit: Same rule applies for healers.
Edited by Sicgroth on 10/4/2012 5:57 PM PDT
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10/04/2012 05:54 PMPosted by Nerfhammer
Yeah I'm greedy okay... Oh wait, I usually give gear to people who need it more if they just ask me after the rolls are over.

No, you are for the reason I stated. an act of kindness does not negate the general attitude that you think you should get the loot (and by proxy decide what should happen with it) just for showing up.
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90 Draenei Warrior
12960


Shut up. Roll on whatever spec you queued for, nothing else


According to what rules? According to your preference? Your preference doesn't determine how someone else gears up their character. It doesn't matter if they intend to disenchant their winnings. If the system will let them roll Need on the item, if they helped to defeat the boss that dropped the item, they have as much right to roll Need on the item as you do.

And no amount of complaint will change that.


Then why can't mail wearers roll on cloth or plate, why cant uh you get it,

The system is flawed and people who think the dice lighting up is free reign to hit it are wrong.

If the system was "everyone killed it so they deserve the chance at loot" why are there loot restrictions now.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
9010
Five people went into the dungeon.

Five people helped defeat the boss.

Five people have an equal claim to what the boss drops.

Dice determine ownership.

Ownership does not exist until an item is in someone's inventory.

End of story.


Wrong.

5 people enter the dungeon.

1 is a tank.

1 person should be able to roll need on tanking items.

All others ask if the tank needs it or not, then rolls need or greed.

Don't like it? GTFO.

Edit: Same rule applies for healers.


You see, you're appealing to an ideal. I'm pointing out a reality.

You say "should".

I say "is".

The Ideal
All tanking drops are the exclusive property of the tank unless the tank passes.

The Reality
All drops are available to anyone the system permits a Need roll on.

If you're in a group you put together, you get the ability to determine who gets what, and when. The tradeoff of this is that you have to assemble the group.

If you're in a PUG via Dungeon Finder, you lose the ability to determine who gets what, and when. The tradeoff of this is the convenience of having Dungeon Finder.

You don't have to like it. But you can't change it. Blizzard may, only they know.

The existence of dual-spec means that the concept of "off spec" doesn't practically exist any longer. If a player wants to gear up their character and not just their spec, then they have the ability to do so in as efficient a method as possible via Dungeon Finder: by rolling on anything which will upgrade their character (in other words, either spec), at their sole discretion. They don't require other players' approval. Yes, this means they may on occasion be booted from the group. This is the risk they take, and most undertake the risk willingly.

You can try to add additional social rules onto the loot system all you like. It doesn't obligate someone to follow those rules.

For example: I have two specs, a Blood spec for tanking, and an Unholy spec for DPS. If I wanted to gear up my Blood spec for tanking via the Dungeon Finder, I have as much right to do so as you do, no matter how much you think otherwise. I helped down the boss, no one owns the boss' drops until it's in their inventory, so we let an impartial die roll determine ownership. Nothing could be more fair.
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90 Draenei Paladin
14320
People talking about tanks/healers taking gear? I've seen the total opposite. I've lost several pieces of tanking gear to dps and my girlfriend has lost a half dozen healing items (ex. price of progress) to dps.
If you want tank gear, run as a tank. If you want healing gear, run as a healer. If it's that wonky gear (ie, spirit=hit) that can go either way, then sure, it can go either way.
Blizzard needs to stop having faith in it's player base having manners, decency, and fairness.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
9010


According to what rules? According to your preference? Your preference doesn't determine how someone else gears up their character. It doesn't matter if they intend to disenchant their winnings. If the system will let them roll Need on the item, if they helped to defeat the boss that dropped the item, they have as much right to roll Need on the item as you do.

And no amount of complaint will change that.


Then why can't mail wearers roll on cloth or plate, why cant uh you get it,

The system is flawed and people who think the dice lighting up is free reign to hit it are wrong.

If the system was "everyone killed it so they deserve the chance at loot" why are there loot restrictions now.


I'm not advocating, by any stretch of the term, rolling Need on something that isn't an actual upgrade for your character. A plate wearer is not going to receive an upgrade from a mail piece; a mail wearer won't receive an upgrade from a cloth piece.

I am, however, advocating rolling Need on an upgrade for your character, and not limiting it by spec. If a plate-wearer has a DPS spec and a tanking spec, then a plate piece that drops for either spec which is an improvement over what they currently have in that slot for that spec is an upgrade, and they should roll on it.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10610
10/04/2012 05:44 PMPosted by Solaru
The words of a ninja.

One can not ninja loot in WoW. The mob tagging system forbids it.


I call shenanigans. With many of the new quest 'bosses' many people can get credit without having to be the person who tagged the mob. However, it grinds my gears when I have worked on said mob to almost dead, and another player comes in at the last minute, and then loots the dude I did 90% of the work on.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
9010
People talking about tanks/healers taking gear? I've seen the total opposite. I've lost several pieces of tanking gear to dps and my girlfriend has lost a half dozen healing items (ex. price of progress) to dps.
If you want tank gear, run as a tank. If you want healing gear, run as a healer. If it's that wonky gear (ie, spirit=hit) that can go either way, then sure, it can go either way.
Blizzard needs to stop having faith in it's player base having manners, decency, and fairness.


Sure, using your example, a DPS who wants tanking gear could run as a tank.

What happens if they don't have existing tanking gear?

You get an undergeared tank, meaning they lack the defensive stats which (along with the healer) help them stay alive, which means they die more often, which means the group dies more often.

On the other hand, someone who goes in with the spec they're best-geared for and contributes so everyone wins does nothing but benefit the group. At that point, the tank has an equal chance of winning the gear if the tank and someone else both roll Need on it; their chance isn't less than someone else who chooses the same rolling priority.

Just accept that the existence of two specs means that people will avail themselves of the opportunity to gear up both specs if they choose. That's a choice they make for their character. They don't require your approval.
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10/04/2012 06:06 PMPosted by Nerfhammer
Just for showing up? No, I'm pretty sure I heal and it would nice to I don't know get healing gear.
You misunderstand...I was implying "for showing up in a role"

10/04/2012 06:06 PMPosted by Nerfhammer
But hey if you want to be selfish and ignore what everyone else wants in your group so you can need on everything, go ahead.
Selfish? hell no. I support a system where people can get gear to use in the game and not what role they happen to be playing at the moment. I think that is actually the oppsite of selfish. I think that being entitled to all the tank gear because you are tanking at the moment is selfish.

If the tank is building a DPS set to do dailies, he should be able to roll on them because he can use them in the game.
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90 Orc Warrior
17140
yeah thsi dk is brain dead or something?
yeah you need a upgrade, the boss drops tank plates and you try to ninja it if the tank needs?, you are no more than a ninjaif you do

blizz need to fix this problem an let only dps roll for dps gear, healers for heal, etc

that will be a easy fix, like cata LFD drops
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1 Human Paladin
0
I think they should just focus on the class restrictions, some work some don't.

It be best to just remove restrictions all together, and promote in group trading.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
9010
yeah thsi dk is brain dead or something?
yeah you need a upgrade, the boss drops tank plates and you try to ninja it if the tank needs?, you are no more than a ninjaif you do

blizz need to fix this problem an let only dps roll for dps gear, healers for heal, etc

that will be a easy fix, like cata LFD drops


If the boss drops tank plate...

Then every person in that group who has a plate-based tank spec (which is any tank save a Druid or Monk), even if they aren't using it right at that moment, has a right to roll on the item.
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1 Human Paladin
0
10/04/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Ragefang
which is any tank save a Druid or Monk


Why limit to some classes, sometime my Monk can roll need on plate items?

Vendor upgrade is still an upgrade, besides I contributed to the group kill; I should be able to roll on it.
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10/04/2012 06:19 PMPosted by Nerfhammer
Whatever the majority of the group decides is the system that should be followed within that group.
wrong

whatever the rules of the game are should be followed by everyone who joins the games public LFD/LFR groups with random strangers

if players want their own personal rules to be followed instead of the rules of the game then they should make their own personal 5man groups before using the LFD/LFR tool
Edited by Zaxen on 10/4/2012 6:28 PM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
7780
Five people went into the dungeon.Five people helped defeat the boss.Five people have an equal claim to what the boss drops.Dice determine ownership.Ownership does not exist until an item is in someone's inventory.End of story.The words of a ninja.I'm tired off losing gear I need for my main spec to balance druids


I agree
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10/04/2012 06:19 PMPosted by Nerfhammer
You cut off my quote. Whatever the majority of the group decides is the system that should be followed within that group. If you want to ignore that system to shaft the other players who agreed on it, then that's your choice.

...because I thought that would be clear. I do not support the entitled view that some people have
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