Combat PvP is surprisingly superior.

90 Undead Rogue
6020
If you have been trying Subtlety or Assassination lately then you'll know that things are pretty grim. The low crit, loss of crit bonuses, and energy starvation make it a struggle just to compete with DPS self-heals outside of burst CDs. Worst those problems extend into the effectiveness of Vendetta and Shadow Dance and so not even the burst is that good. In a strange twist Combat isn't plagued by most of these problems. It lost no crit bonuses because it never had them or relied on them, it has the best energy regen, and neither of its burst CDs are energy dependent.

Killing Spree is better than it has ever been. The radius for target/teleporting is seemingly much smaller as well as static. Meaning it will only target those in the radius where you originally stood instead of targeting from a radius of where you are each teleport and it doesn't seem to target people who cross into that zone after its started. All of that makes it infinitely easier to single target or Blade Furry cleave two targets. It easily does 100-150K with no trinkets popped.

Adrenaline Rush of all the major CDs has the greatest synergy with Shadow Blades. Shadow Blades doubles the CP generation of SS spam and AR further increase attack speed by 20%. Combined with the AR glyph the entire combination dwarf Shadow Dance and Vendetta to the point it is laughable to think the other two are considered burst at all.

The extra energy let's Combat use all the other tools much more effectively as well. BoS being one of them. Let me say that BoS is not better or worst than Shs. Rather they have tradeoffs between each other. BoS used correctly counters kiting tool gap openers at the cost of being a less effective gap closer against everything else like fears or z-axis abuse. Using Shuriken Toss with the Combat's energy regen really helps makeup for a lot of the lost survivability because one is able to maintain recup easily/cheaply, prep for other finishers, maintain crippling and secondary non-lethal, and does all this while allowing you to keep energy at or around 60 for BoS. Also, it produces more damage & CP per energy than SS, which is important because you can use it instead of SS to control and lengthen the time you have 20% bandit's guile.

Finally, 8sec kidneys.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
7060
Neat story. Now go run up a successful 3s team as combat and i will pay attention without being carried with bugged BM hunters.
Edited by Lifsha on 10/5/2012 1:08 PM PDT
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88 Night Elf Rogue
1665
10/05/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Newkie
does 8 second kidney really work on players?

After using Revealing Strike and no other stuns were recently made, then yes.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
10/05/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Newkie
does 8 second kidney really work on players?


8 second stun works but you have to watch out for DRs. Combat is the best its been in a very long time, but as it is with all 3 rogue specs its damage is very cooldown dependant (possibly exluding mut due to poison damage).

I been rolling with combat for quite some time, and with my experience the damage CDs are too long, 3 min AR and 3 min shadow blade and kill spree being 2 min, also kill spree does bug out on you on occasion teleporting you to god knows where and mitigating your burst. I have heard of several high rated rogues wanting to use combat for rating this season. I feel there is an overall bias in the rogue community towards combat in general but the spec can have potential ... HOWEVER..

10/05/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Lifsha
Now go run up a successful 3s team as combat and i will pay attention without being carried with bugged BM hunters.


By the time you set up bandits guile and a kidney for a kill a backpedalling huntard will sick his pet at you while while AFKing cuz he is laughing so hard at how fast you die.
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90 Undead Rogue
6020
10/05/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Lifsha
Neat story. Now go run up a successful 3s team as combat and i will pay attention without being carried with bugged BM hunters.


In other words you are incapable of even the most minimal theorycrafting and must rely on blindly imitating the success of others.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
7060
10/05/2012 01:23 PMPosted by Subversiv
Neat story. Now go run up a successful 3s team as combat and i will pay attention without being carried with bugged BM hunters.


In other words you are incapable of even the most minimal theorycrafting and must rely on blindly imitating the success of others.


In other words, you are full of hot air and can provide no credible display to your flapping mouth.
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90 Human Rogue
10890
10/05/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Lifsha


In other words you are incapable of even the most minimal theorycrafting and must rely on blindly imitating the success of others.


In other words, you are full of hot air and can provide no credible display to your flapping mouth.


But he has the AB Tabard and Battlemaster title, you should listen to him.

>.>
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
10/05/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Lifsha
In other words, you are full of hot air and can provide no credible display to your flapping mouth.


Like I said earlier ...bias. God forbid you try something other than sub.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450


In other words, you are full of hot air and can provide no credible display to your flapping mouth.


But he has the AB Tabard and Battlemaster title, you should listen to him.

>.>


And he's a miner. I've been seeing a few Forsaken miners lately. You guys ran out of slaves again?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
7060
10/05/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Failrogue
In other words, you are full of hot air and can provide no credible display to your flapping mouth.


Like I said earlier ...bias. God forbid you try something other than sub.


You are a fool. Imagination land ended when arena season started. You don't need to dream about what could or could not be good, go in the arena actually do it.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
10/05/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Failrogue
In other words, you are full of hot air and can provide no credible display to your flapping mouth.


Like I said earlier ...bias. God forbid you try something other than sub.


To be fair, this isn't the first time I've seen someone promote Combat PvP. After a season or even a patch it starts to become weak compared to the other two. And by two, I mean Sub.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
7060
10/05/2012 01:33 PMPosted by Noitora


Like I said earlier ...bias. God forbid you try something other than sub.


To be fair, this isn't the first time I've seen someone promote Combat PvP. After a season or even a patch it starts to become weak compared to the other two. And by two, I mean Sub.


Random imagination post doesn't promote anything. The season is open get in there are starting owning everyone with a spec if you want to promote in a meaningful way.

Sitting scared on the sidelines doing nothing talking about how you think something might be good is pointless.

I have no time for arm chair heroes who tell everyone how great they could be if they could just get off their !@#.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
10/05/2012 01:33 PMPosted by Lifsha
You are a fool. Imagination land ended when arena season started. You don't need to dream about what could or could not be good, go in the arena actually do it.


I did try arena, it was awful, i and it wasnt awful becuase the spec sucked it was awful becuase either myself or my partner would get obliterated by a hunter mage or warrior.

Learn to read, i never said combat is better than sub, there is a reason sub is traditionally the preferred spec for 3s. I more listed the cons of combat more than anything.

10/05/2012 01:33 PMPosted by Noitora
To be fair, this isn't the first time I've seen someone promote Combat PvP. After a season or even a patch it starts to become weak compared to the other two. And by two, I mean Sub.


Usually this is the case.
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90 Human Rogue
9030
Generally speaking I have had the most success as combat recently. That being said its not our damage thats a consistant issue. Not going to repeat what 10259 forums have already QQd about.
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90 Undead Rogue
6020
[quote="67932994395"]I been rolling with combat for quite some time, and with my experience the damage CDs are too long, 3 min AR and 3 min shadow blade and kill spree being 2 min, also kill spree does bug out on you on occasion teleporting you to god knows where and mitigating your burst. I have heard of several high rated rogues wanting to use combat for rating this season. I feel there is an overall bias in the rogue community towards combat in general but the spec can have potential ... HOWEVER..

By the time you set up bandits guile and a kidney for a kill a backpedalling huntard will sick his pet at you while while AFKing cuz he is laughing so hard at how fast you die.


You are forgetting that restless blades lowers those cooldowns and can do so quite significantly with good up time and/or shuriken usage. I'd take the unCCable Killing Spree with an occasional misfire over the easily CCable Shadow Dance. Also, let's not undermine the fact that you are getting 2 burst cooldowns with Combat as opposed to just one.

Also, hunters aren't a good baseline for comparing any spec, but having BoS and actually being able to use it makes hunters far less of an issue than you imagine. Combat Readiness + Feint lets you shield wall against the entire duration of that ridiculously OP hunter ability.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
10/05/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Subversiv
You are forgetting that restless blades lowers those cooldowns and can do so quite significantly with good up time and/or shuriken usage. I'd take the unCCable Killing Spree with an occasional misfire over the easily CCable Shadow Dance. Also, let's not undermine the fact that you are getting 2 burst cooldowns with Combat as opposed to just one.


Agreed, ive used the same tactic myself many times.

10/05/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Subversiv
Also, hunters aren't a good baseline for comparing any spec, but having BoS and actually being able to use it makes hunters far less of an issue than you imagine.


Also agreed, BoS will make it tricky for a MM hunter.

10/05/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Subversiv
Combat Readiness + Feint lets you shield wall against the entire duration of that ridiculously OP hunter ability.


Yea this setup is a good damage mitigator, but I think a BM hunter can still global you even with both of them up, thats how stupid thier burst is.
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90 Undead Rogue
6020
10/05/2012 01:48 PMPosted by Failrogue
Yea this setup is a good damage mitigator, but I think a BM hunter can still global you even with both of them up, thats how stupid thier burst is.


The damage is ridiculous for sure, but it isn't globaling people. It's 20secs of pure unpeelable stupidity. With what amounts to a similar duration 65% shield wall it is survivable for rogues, but I suspect healers and classes that can't immune or drop target are more likely going to be focused anyway i.e. shamans, priests, locks, DKs, etc...
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