Holy Paladins Mana Regen Percentages.

90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
So, as someone who has been a hpally for quite some time, Ive noticed some serious issues regarding the way things like Seal of Insight, and Arcane Torrent are working.

As a Blood Elf, Ive always used Arcane Torrent in my rotation, as pre-5.0.4 it was based on the amount of mana I had in my mana pool, so using a volcanic potion w/ Arcane torrent and Divine plea would significantly bring my mana up, Arcane Torrent giving me back nearly 10k at times. [I was full BiS, so I had a decently sized mana pool, fully buffed]

But now, when I use Arcane torrent, I get a whopping 6k mana. Like....really? Out of 300k total mana, someone at blizzard thought that 6k was 6%? I might have failed math in highschool, but even I know thats not right. Same thing going for Seal of Insight hit chances. Whenever I land a hit that procs the magical '4% mana back' I get a whopping 2500 mana. Again, not being a grand math student, still tells me that 4% of 300k is NOT 2500.

As for Divine plea, I cant say 100% that its not working its full fuction, I dont think it is, but I havent had the time during fights to sit and watch. So I wont get into it.

But the issue I am having now is basically, I know Blizz wanted to make healing harder, and a challenge, but what was the point of increasing my mana pool, when you were just gonna double the costs of my spells anyways? I was gonna assume blizz was going off 'base mana' percentages, but what is base mana anymore? I could take all my armor off or put on my dps gear, and still have 300k mana.

So someone help address me if Im wrong, but at this point in time, I am having mana issues [as I sure everyone else is]. Mana issues that careful CD planning and other mana regen abilities cant even help with. Because things dont seem to work as they should.

Any other pallies noticing the same issues?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
The mana return was changed from 6% to 2% about a week ago. Insight returns 4% base mana, which is not 300k.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
If that is the case, why does it still say 6%?

Im not saying you're wrong, but if it has changed, then it needs to have its tooltip updated.

As for that 4% base mana, if I am getting a even 2500 mana back, that would assume I have less than a 100k base mana pool. Which is pretty low, even with the bad gear I have atm. I get even less mana back now, then previously at lvl 85.

As I said, its hard to configure base mana, when everything is a set number, being 300k.
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90 Tauren Paladin
5245
I also found this to be the case though I thought it less of a glitch and rather Blizzard further nerfing those two abilities to make our mana upkeep be really difficult. Which I personally thing is unfair giving our absolute !@#$ co-efficents in comparison to any other healing class in the game. I recently race changed back to a Tauren, mostly out of asthetic reasons but also because Arcane Torrent no longer gave any real buff, 6k mana is not even enough to get off a single holy shock or holy light.

I'm also not sure if anyone but me has noticed the numbers on our crit/mastery/haste in comparison to others. I'm 4 ilevels above a resto Shaman in my raid group, she rocks out with 56% Mastery unreforged into it. I am reforged pure Mastery or rather was trying it out and got...eh...29.66% max. And trying to get crit or haste above 20 is just...impossible. Although that may be the same with all classes but it really does seem like Paladin's got the short end of the stick somewhat for healing. I mean I can still compete but it takes a lot of work in comparison to shaman healing or so it feels.

Well mana no longer scales off gear. Base mana at 90 is something like 60k if your not a healer. Any healing spec gets a buff that gives us 400% over the base mana pool, it's why you have 300k but a mage only gets 60 or so. I may be wrong but I know base is not over 100k.
Edited by Barutha on 10/7/2012 11:39 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
Yeah, thats what Ive been trying to figure out, what exactly our base mana is.

Wouldve been helpful for our spells/abilities to actually say "of base mana", instead of just letting us assume, or find out the hard way
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
At this point in the game Base mana shouldn't exist.
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90 Tauren Paladin
5245
No offense Ryion but...considering your class you really shouldn't have anything to say one way or the other. In comparison to paladins, Shaman's retained there "I have unlimited mana" abilities. You can still spam lighting bolt and get back more mana than it costs you. It takes us 5 melee hits to get off a HOLY SHOCK, our weakest heal if it doesn't crit and considering we can't get our crit over 15% without massive reforging and enchanting thus weakening all other stats, well you see my point. It takes us 10-12 melee swings to get enough for a divine which is the only heal big enough to even see on tank HP anymore.

I get what you're saying and I'm sorry if I come off a little bitter, I guess I sorta am. I used to keep up with Shaman's, it was tough but I could do it. Then blizzard drove paladin numbers and mana regen into the ground, every other class gets more base mana regen than us too! Gah. So irritating.

I also agree Mian, it would be nice for them to say "Hey this is how much it gives you." Since all mana is the same now on every person.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18880
10/07/2012 11:45 AMPosted by Mianhaeyo
Yeah, thats what Ive been trying to figure out, what exactly our base mana is.

Our base mana at level 90 is 60,000. I am surprised you did not know that.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10115
You realize Telluric Currents barely restores more than the cost of the LB itself, right? The things that make Shaman regen superior are Water Shield and Resurgence, and even then it's not an earth-shattering difference compared to the massive amount of throughput we get from "free" healing via Holy Power.

Not saying the two classes are completely balanced in every way shape and form (nor should they be), but you're making a mountain out of a molehill, and are off-topic to boot. FOR SHAME
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90 Tauren Paladin
5245
@Tail: I'll agree I went into a bit of a rant there, so for that I apologize. And your right the mana regen isn't that much greater, about 2k per 5 more, not a super big deal. I will however still state that the amount of Mastery they get considering what it does, versus what we get for way more of the stat itself is still unfair. Also...I'm a Tauren, I won't feel shame from you, goat girl! =P

To the topic at hand yes our base mana is 60k and meleeing bosses doesn't give much back in terms of mana. However I noticed something raiding the other night and that's that the healing maces have very,very fast attack speed, all below 2 seconds. The one I'm wielding now I think has a 1.6 attack speed. I can get about 5k back in the time it takes to get a heal off almost, so it's not bad.

Not that I've found much time to be meleeing...Stupid people standing in purple goop...*Grumbles*
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
If that is the case, why does it still say 6%?

Im not saying you're wrong, but if it has changed, then it needs to have its tooltip updated.


Hotfixes don't, and can't, change tooltips. The tooltip won't change until there's a patch.

As for that 4% base mana, if I am getting a even 2500 mana back, that would assume I have less than a 100k base mana pool. Which is pretty low, even with the bad gear I have atm. I get even less mana back now, then previously at lvl 85.


It's base mana. Base mana is 60k, and no gear you ever get will raise it. Insight has been 4% base mana for a long time, at least since the patch where judging it stopped returning 15%.
Edited by Cayse on 10/7/2012 12:10 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
@barutha: Wow aggressive much? I'm just saying Base mana shouldn't exist.
Edited by Ryion on 10/7/2012 12:13 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
10/07/2012 11:57 AMPosted by Cyanidê
Yeah, thats what Ive been trying to figure out, what exactly our base mana is.

Our base mana at level 90 is 60,000. I am surprised you did not know that.


How would I lol?

Not trying to sound ignorant of anything, but I dont venture off into forums, and other updates so much, I get my information from my character info. As far as I know, there isnt any info on my character profile to tell me my base mana. Unless Im wrong. Which could be the case.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10115
Well, as Prot and Ret our base mana is 60,000. Holy Insight (a Holy passive) increases our mana pool by 400%, giving us the 300,000 that we have as healers. Those are the only two mana pool sizes that we are capable of as Paladins, meta gems notwithstanding.

It's not exactly obvious I agree.
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
"Hotfixes don't, and can't, change tooltips. The tooltip won't change until there's a patch."
Blizzards way of lying to us
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
All and all, where Im coming from is just saying that this is just not a good system for mana regen.

As for seal of insight, standing there meleeing a boss [which is sometimes not something I can do depending on the fight], means I am not casting, which is hps lost. So having to melee a boss for a whole 2k mana back over a period of time, is really terrible.

Im not QQing, just trying to see if anyone else here has ways of getting around the low mana regen or possibly ways for me to do it better :]

Also, @Ryion, Stop trolling
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90 Tauren Paladin
5245
It's not as bad as it sounds honestly. While Arcane Torrent assuredly isn't as good as it used to be for the moment over the course of an eight minute fight, it's still a few more heals thrown out. Lord knows on Heroic Madness the first few times my guild killed it, one or two more HR's and in turn, LoD, made the difference in the end. I would keep it in your rotation personally. Afterall free mana is free mana. While I still think there are better racials for mana or will be in the long run, I'd still put arcane torrent up there in the top 5 Racials for healers in PvE.

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We also still get Divine Plea =D.

@Ryion: Yes I was. I apologize for it, I have a bad habit of going off on rants from time to time, it was rude and extremely unpleasant of me. I'd ask you not hold it against me to badly, I really am sorry about it.

@Mina: You need to replace that one trinket, The Thousand Year Egg, there's a specfic trinket I'm thinking of that you need to get. It's out of Siege Of Ninanzu Temple, Vial Of Ichorus Blood, it's basically a spirit steroid every 2 minutes. You combine that with Arcane Torrent and Divine Plea once you reach about 170-200k mana (Whatever you feel comfortable with) and then use those mana regen abilities/items on CD for the remainder of the fight. It's helped me in my raid quite a bit.

Also Scholomance has a rare drop trinket if you wanna grind that, called The Price Of Progress which grants every spell a chance to refund 5000 mana. Reducing the cost of a holy shock potentially, to 4k, meaning Arcane torrent is enough for a HS. Beyond that, even if the gear has a lower ilevel, make sure all your stuff has spirit on it, if it doesn't...reforge a secondary into spirit. I suggest taking haste away, the sheer amount you need makes it worthless and Insight gives you a free 10% haste anyway.
Edited by Barutha on 10/7/2012 12:23 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Shaman
0
It's ok. we all mad cause we can't log in 3>
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
20945
10/07/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Mianhaeyo
As for seal of insight, standing there meleeing a boss [which is sometimes not something I can do depending on the fight], means I am not casting, which is hps lost. So having to melee a boss for a whole 2k mana back over a period of time, is really terrible.


If you stand in melee range of the boss you will still get some swings in while you are healing, because of how instant casts and the swing timer works.
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