First MoP raid gear check

90 Human Warrior
9415
Hello

I'm doing my first MoP raid with my guild on friday as a protection warrior. My major concern about my gear is the reforging, I'm not really sure what to do. (And yes, I will have a meta on tuesday). Also, what's you guys opinion on my glyphs?

Thanks in advance,
Klanne
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10660
Your gear is just fine, but for GOD SAKE don't use two damn brewfest stamina trinkets, they are really really worthless for tanking, unless you find yourself getting 2-3 shot. Anything from heroics, or even the brewfest tanking trinket (not stamina ones) would be better.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12990
I believe its the Brawler's Statue and well any other trinket that you should be using, because really you just have two empty trinket slots right now.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
16715
The sexy brewmaidens your brewfest trinkets summon may not do that much for your tanking, but surely the most important thing about most trinkets are the static buffs they provide, and those trinkets bring a lot of stam. So calling them worthless is perhaps an exaggeration.
Edited by Murdina on 10/9/2012 3:05 AM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
9415
Alright guys, thanks. I'll replace one of them with the dodge from the brewfest and try to find another one. Thanks :)
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
16715
2600+ Stamina may not be ideal, but it is FAR from worthless. And I don't think Dodge is the tanking-friend it used to be for plate-wearing tanks.

That's what I was thinking. Effective health is probably a little more important start of MoP than at the start of Cata. So if I was Klanne I'd go with the brewfest dodge trinket (maybe reforged for mastery or expertise) and a stam trinket. The 460 stam trinket from Shado-Pan or the VP one would be good, but the brewfest one will do in a pinch.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
It's not bad for non-DKs, for death knights, it's actually a mitigation stat. Hell, it's actually better than mastery if you can get enough health to get the minimum shield semi-consistently.

Dodge is about as attractive as cabbage soup, but even cabbage soup is useful when they give you enough of it to drown your enemies. See the new darkmoon card for an example.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
8325
I like an on use avoidance + a stam with a proc. I macro my use one with bone shield. That way if i get lucky with avoidance, the bone shield stays up longer.
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90 Draenei Warrior
7115
You'll need enough stam to survive a couple unlucky hits.

It is different from cata in that shield tanks are no longer ctc capped. We eat full on hits like anyone else.

Get enough stam to put 500-550k hp raid buffed, and you're good to go.

Rest into hit/exp and avoidance.

EDIT: and get a damn meta. They are important.
Edited by Sibilance on 10/9/2012 5:21 AM PDT
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90 Tauren Warrior
10720
It's not bad for non-DKs, for death knights, it's actually a mitigation stat. Hell, it's actually better than mastery if you can get enough health to get the minimum shield semi-consistently.

Dodge is about as attractive as cabbage soup, but even cabbage soup is useful when they give you enough of it to drown your enemies. See the new darkmoon card for an example.


Was just buffed in a hot fix to add a ton of stam!
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90 Orc Warrior
6715
change war bringer to juggernaut, stuns are irelevant in raid settings, this is more of a pvp talent or at best a heroic 5 man talent. It does little in terms of tanking at the raid level. Change enraged regeneration to impending victor. You have to pop berserker rage to guarantee the regen from it in an emergency otherwise the rage cost is not worth it, this can potentially heal for more in clutch but we are talking about a 12.5% heal in an emergency every minute vs a 10% heal every 30 seconds with the potential for a cd reset with a bigger heal on it's next use, very good on encounters with adds. both are situational and could be argued both way but I've found from personal experience that impending victory is hands down a better talent for raiding. Mass spell reflection is situational at best. Safeguard and vigilance are going to be your primary choices here especially for two tank encounters with target swapping. wich one will depend entirely on the encounter and you will probably do a lot of swapping between the two, you can always pick up mass spell reflect on casters fights though really, this talent is extremely sub par for where it is listed in the talent trees and should just be ignored for the most part. If there are changes to certain fights it has the potential to be highly lucrative but right now it's not worth considering compared to the other two and what they offer in terms of survival. the level 90 talents are all garbage for tanking. Storm bolt is extremely lack luster for what it does as a 90 talent, it does give bonus threat for boss encounters and is somewhat fun on trash mobs but in terms of actual utility it's horrible along with blood bath since BB only works on revenge and shield slam and we already got damage nerfed to begin with. also the rend dots don't roll so buffing dps isn't really our concern just maintaining a constant RPS generation. Avatar does have some utility in the regard for 20% enrage timers but for the most part it pales in comparison to storm bolt. neither are particularly beneficial so w/e talent you pick up will not matter most people tend towards storm bolt simply because it generates some burst threat, unfortunately since it is based on wep damage and not AP it is still an extremely lack luster talent.

Reforge all of your parry. Parry is the one stat we can do without. We get it from str, and we get it from gear, so we have an excess of it. Put your parry into mastery, hit, and expertise. Generally speaking for 5 mans you can get away with 3-5 hit/expertise, but in raids rage is only generated through ss, revenge, br, and shouts, without stacking mastery hard. We cannot afford to waste cooldowns on missed ss and revenges. more importantly unless you have 40%+ mastery your crit block is not going to generate enough reliable RPS to make up for the loss in hit/xptise. There is a very good post on tankspot by zeks that sims the RPS for hit/xpertise that shows them being almost double the value of mastery until you reach the cap at 7.5%. Once you get to that point xpertise becomes nearly worthless and being hit capped is required for certain encounters where damage incoming is spell and crit block becomes worthless. Also because dodge suffers such high diminishing returns once you hit 10.61% all dodge should be reforged to hit/xp/mas depending on what you are weakest on because the ratio of conversion becomes greater than that of parry above 15%. In other words you get more value converting dodge above 10% than converting parry above 15% because of the diminishing returns on dodge. you can find the exact numbers formulas on EJ and MMO champion if you are a stat !@#$%. Ditch your glyph of long charge and gag order and pick up two of the following :
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90 Orc Warrior
6715
Glyph of Shield slam : Higher TPS, second only to revenge on melee fights. Caster fights SS is better and will be a staple glyph.
Glyph of Hold The Line : King for fights with melee dps, higher TPS and DPS. Mandatory for fights with continuous adds with lots of mobility. Can be replaced during tank and spanks for Glyph of Incite or Glyph of Shield wall.
Glyph of Impending victory : For fights with adds this glyph will excell over incite and Shield slam. Very situational, and should never be used to replace HTL.
Glyph of Shield wall : Since everyone is gearing up still, you won't be able to walk in with two crafted items and face roll your way to victory. the bonus damage reduction will make a huge difference, this really should be one of your main choices until you are better geared. Once you do get better gear this glyph will lose it's value compared to others, but will still have a place on certain encounters.
Glyph of Incite : TPS/DPS glyph. Basically every minute you get 3 free heroics, and if you tax the deadly calm and use dev just at the end of it's expiration you can get a refresh for a few seconds with 10 rage heroics. You won't really benefit from this glyph until you get above 35% mastery, but once you do get to around 40% this glyph will start to shine for you since your RPS will be more than you can spend on SB and you'll find yourself dumping into SBar to bleed off excess rage.

Unending rage is fairly lackluster. It's really only for dps warriors. You should never be at full rage in a raid. That's what SB and Sbar are for, and they aren't cheap to use.
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90 Human Warrior
3050
Your gear is just fine, but for GOD SAKE don't use two damn brewfest stamina trinkets, they are really really worthless for tanking, unless you find yourself getting 2-3 shot. Anything from heroics, or even the brewfest tanking trinket (not stamina ones) would be better.


2600+ Stamina may not be ideal, but it is FAR from worthless. And I don't think Dodge is the tanking-friend it used to be for plate-wearing tanks.

1: I've never been a fan of using 2 stam trinkets at the same time unless the encounter is unavoidable magic damage.
2: the Brawlers Statue is alot of dodge that can be reforged to mastery.

10/09/2012 05:18 AMPosted by Milicatwo
I like an on use avoidance + a stam with a proc.

yup yup
Edited by Gervasio on 10/9/2012 7:49 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
13110
lolol 'stam is worthless' where do these people come from?

If the last two encounters of vaults are any indication of the rest of this raid tier, tank damage will be very high and undergeared tanks need stam.

Please drop all this 'stam is 4 bads' thinking, its not helping anyone.

Its the first raiding tier, lets all remember what that means, avoidance is low, mastery is low, healers and DPS and tanks are all learning the encounters, maybe you should give yourself as big an error cushion as possible? Maybe?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10660
lolol 'stam is worthless' where do these people come from?

If the last two encounters of vaults are any indication of the rest of this raid tier, tank damage will be very high and undergeared tanks need stam.

Please drop all this 'stam is 4 bads' thinking, its not helping anyone.

Its the first raiding tier, lets all remember what that means, avoidance is low, mastery is low, healers and DPS and tanks are all learning the encounters, maybe you should give yourself as big an error cushion as possible? Maybe?


Where are you getting 'stam is worthless' and 'stam is 4 bads'? I certainly hope you're not quoting me, because you are incorrect. Stamina is a GREAT stat to have, but those trinkets are awful in that they provide nothing but stamina. There are SEVERAL choices for trinkets that include stamina + proc or stamina + activation. The brewfest stamina trinkets are really awful, and shouldn't be used except in cases where you cannot find something better.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
13110
Your gear is just fine, but for GOD SAKE don't use two damn brewfest stamina trinkets, they are really really worthless for tanking, unless you find yourself getting 2-3 shot. Anything from heroics, or even the brewfest tanking trinket (not stamina ones) would be better.


You pretty clearly state right here, you think ~2600 stam is worthless for tanking...

I don't think that is accurate at all. Particularly, as I said in my post, when its the second-third week of the expansion and providing margin for error can make a big difference.
Edited by Nìkolus on 10/9/2012 9:28 AM PDT
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100 Human Warlock
17415
Also, let's stop acting like everyone should pick two trinkets and stay with them for every fight. That's not how tanks work. When critiquing someone's gear, make a note about trinket setups for the fights they're looking at (ie: "MoBI gives you an extra cooldown for Drains on Zon'ozz"), and trinkets they should have kicking around somewhere (ie, again: "MoBI is handy to have around so make sure you pick it up."). A trinket has to be really bad to be outright shot down, and the Brewfest trinkets are not.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13785
There are SEVERAL choices for trinkets that include stamina + proc or stamina + activation. The brewfest stamina trinkets are really awful, and shouldn't be used except in cases where you cannot find something better.


Often the procs aren't all that great or the extra Stamina completely offsets the lack of useful reforge stat or silly proc/on use. Seriously I don't plan on replacing my Stamina trinkets without getting something with more Stamina since the point of an EH trinket is 99% of the time getting the most EH you can, ie the most Stamina. In the rare case that there is some high uptime Mastery trinket with Stamina, I'd shift to that for EH but the mantra of "Double Brewfest is for baddies" which has existed since Brewfest came out... is silly.

In most cases you're looking at dropping some Stamina for a pittance of extra Dodge or Parry or Mastery, and for many classes that pittance is worse than a drop in the bucket. Double Brewfest Stamina is more than acceptable for entry NORMAL raids. Past that it is encounter specific to the EH thresholds you need to obtain, which depending on luck, could still find their way on your character if you haven't gotten better EH items.

Also the subjectivity of not doubling up on Stamina or Avoidance or Threat or Whatever trinkets is also silly. If you need the Stamina, make them both Stamina. Likewise with Avoidance or whatever else.
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