LFR iLevel Requirement currently too high.

90 Pandaren Monk
10970
I'm still confused

It's "Game breaking" to be 363, but "It's no big deal" at 360, it hurts my head as to why it only matters when arguing for faceroll.


Its not game breaking by any means, and no one is saying it is. I don't think you understand the purpose of this "nerf". Its only in place to correct problems with RNG, which there are some. Hell, I still have some guildies who have cleared 4/6 with me and STILL aren't at 463 ilv simply because of drops just not showing up. And trust me, I know they've ran a crap ton of heroics because I've ran with many of them many, many times.

So you want blizzard to take away yet another choice we have? no thanks.

besides, in what cartoon world is crafting not a viable option? If that's the case, there should be no profession other than enchanting and jewelcrafting.


Please quote me where I said that Blizzard should take away crafted gear. I am saying that it should not have to be used for casual progression. Having the use crafted gear to go from heroic 5 mans to LFR is silly, and is completely against the idea of LFR itself. Again, the purpose of this nerf is NOT for the raiding crowd who are already going through MSV. It is for that huge crowd of people who cannot raid on a regular basis, nor have time to do so and can still see content. Sadly yes, bad players ruin the system, but that just means you need to hate the player base, not the system itself which has no choice but to adapt.

10/04/2012 11:13 PMPosted by Postonforums
Remember, having done dread wastes was too hard for LFD, and now having to do LFD is too hard for LFR, I'm just waiting for when 89's will be able to do LFR. It's just as fair.


Again, its not about the difficulty. Its about removing some RNG from the system. LFR is not like a normal raid where if you are good enough you can simply walk in and preform regardless of your gear. You have to actually queue up for it and meet a minimum requirement to enter, and that does make a difference in how the system needs to be ran.

I find it funny though that the only person who actually realizes what this "nerf" was for is Waste. Seriously guys, it is NOT for your standard progression raider and never was.
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90 Human Rogue
10980
10/05/2012 10:38 AMPosted by Sarosha
Your time has come and past its our time now.


Tell me this when you pull NORMAL stone guards the first time. Then tell me that when you pull it the 25th time. And again the 35th. If you thought magmaw was hard I very excited to see you try SG.

10/05/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Arpandaday
Again, its not about the difficulty. Its about removing some RNG from the system. LFR is not like a normal raid where if you are good enough you can simply walk in and preform regardless of your gear. You have to actually queue up for it and meet a minimum requirement to enter, and that does make a difference in how the system needs to be ran.


363 meant that someone actually put effort into their gear. It meant they ran probably in the 40-60 heroic range. Raiding with people who actually care about raiding... not a bad thing. Raiding with people who expect to ride the blazey-train to free purples is.

10/05/2012 10:41 AMPosted by Arpandaday
I find it funny though that the only person who actually realizes what this "nerf" was for is Waste. Seriously guys, it is NOT for your standard progression raider and never was.


We all realize it, we just don't want it spilling into real raids like it has done every time the casual crowd gets a nerf in the past.
Edited by Ninjablaze on 10/5/2012 11:01 AM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
10/05/2012 10:59 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
Tell me this when you pull NORMAL stone guards the first time. Then tell me that when you pull it the 25th time. And again the 35th. If you thought magmaw was hard I very excited to see you try SG.

We aren't starting our raid team for a couple of weeks yet, but I did take a peek at the concept, and my first thought was, "I wonder how you modify it for LFR?"

Obviously I haven't tried it yet (we don't kick off our raiding season until 10/23), but just looking at it, it should be an interesting change of pace for people expecting a Morchok-level first boss . . .
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90 Troll Druid
11860
10/04/2012 06:41 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We're currently looking into reducing the item level requirement for Mogu'Shan Vaults LFR from 463 to 460. This should mean that more players will be ready to go once LFR is rolled out, but their gear should still be at an appropriate level for the fights.


Thanks I think! No really thanks.

You know it's funny considering I've been almost non stop dungeon leveling (I've completed 67 heroic Pandarian heroic runs since I hit 90 Sep 30th) and have got no -
Chest
Wrists
Helm
Shoulders
Belt
Offhand

I know it's just 'luck' but stepping into a MV raid at a ilvl of 454 while obtaining two pieces of ilvl 489 gear and killing first 3 bosses STILL doesn't let me Que for LFR.

Now that's just plain silly.
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90 Undead Warrior
0
It's not normal mode SG. It's LFR. The two are not the same, nor do they provide similar rewards. I doubt EVERYONE in your first normal mode raid had full 463 as of a week ago. You had no ilvl requirement to run normal, in fact, so this change literally has no impact beyond LFR.

Again, it's LFR. Not normal mode. Not hard mode. Don't conflate the two (or three) together.
Edited by Cizzle on 10/5/2012 11:16 AM PDT
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90 Human Rogue
10980
10/05/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Waste
We aren't starting our raid team for a couple of weeks yet, but I did take a peek at the concept, and my first thought was, "I wonder how you modify it for LFR?"


I took a peak at the dungeon jounral. It appears they left all the mechanics in but just made none of them matter. Overload hits you for 1/4 of the damage it does on normal. Petrification lasts for like 10 seconds instead of wiping you. I wouldn't be all that shocked if there where only 2 dogs.

10/05/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Waste
Obviously I haven't tried it yet (we don't kick off our raiding season until 10/23), but just looking at it, it should be an interesting change of pace for people expecting a Morchok-level first boss . . .


Honestly looking at the fight doesn't even do it justice. I expected it to be an absolute faceroll. While it wasn't insane it was far from a faceroll. It is definitely not morchok. My old guild (which wasn't that good) did 0 beta testing. We walked in the first night and 1 shot morchok.

The instance as a whole is a very fair entry level raid. The tuning isn't overly challenging (although elegon seems like it is very tightly tuned) but the bosses do have mechanics that you do have to follow or you will die. I don't think a 5/10% nerf does much good on a fight like SG. If you stand in stuff and don't taunt correctly you are going to die.
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90 Orc Warlock
7195
I took a peak at the dungeon jounral. It appears they left all the mechanics in but just made none of them matter. Overload hits you for 1/4 of the damage it does on normal. Petrification lasts for like 10 seconds instead of wiping you. I wouldn't be all that shocked if there where only 2 dogs.
I bet it'll be 3 dogs with 25m LFR, but you will be able to either suck at tanking and just have the healers pick up the slack from much reduced damage, or have good tanks and have it not matter much. I'm assuming the damage and mechanics from chains, pools, and mines will probably be greatly reduced too, although it'll probably still be there (maybe just no root and longer time between casts)?. I do hope they make it so the lone dog doesn't take reduced damage though since I forsee half the DPS attacking a dog that isn't taking damage otherwise.
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90 Undead Hunter
15045


I know it's just 'luck' but stepping into a MV raid at a ilvl of 454 while obtaining two pieces of ilvl 489 gear and killing first 3 bosses STILL doesn't let me Que for LFR.

Now that's just plain silly.


I don't disagree with what you are saying but you are selling yourself a little short wearing Cata shoulders/belt. Surely you've seen some 429/437/450 ilvl quest rewards?
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
LFR Stone Guard explosion is only 125k, you'll be healing through lots of them in LFR.
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90 Troll Hunter
11255
but that's not exactly the target audience for LFR. If you are a solo / unguilded / casual player, Sha is basically not available to you.


Why should it be to someone like that? make some damn friends. Join a guild. I really don't see why all the crying happened when it's quite easy - especially with the 476 boots from Sha/trinkets from Coren - to hit 463 and shows people put the tiniest bit of effort into getting ready. And honestly, like Ninja said you can easily pug this jokester of a "boss," it requires no thought process at all. We had ~2-3 pugs trying to snatch it away from us by spam taunting to reset it, but they failed hard. There is no benefit of being in a guild group for the likes of Sha, since it's completely random on the loot front.

Oh, and they also lowered some 489 epics to honored instead of keeping it revered.
Edited by Naumu on 10/5/2012 11:43 AM PDT
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We aren't starting our raid team for a couple of weeks yet, but I did take a peek at the concept, and my first thought was, "I wonder how you modify it for LFR?"


I took a peak at the dungeon jounral. It appears they left all the mechanics in but just made none of them matter. Overload hits you for 1/4 of the damage it does on normal. Petrification lasts for like 10 seconds instead of wiping you. I wouldn't be all that shocked if there where only 2 dogs.

Obviously I haven't tried it yet (we don't kick off our raiding season until 10/23), but just looking at it, it should be an interesting change of pace for people expecting a Morchok-level first boss . . .


Honestly looking at the fight doesn't even do it justice. I expected it to be an absolute faceroll. While it wasn't insane it was far from a faceroll. It is definitely not morchok. My old guild (which wasn't that good) did 0 beta testing. We walked in the first night and 1 shot morchok.

The instance as a whole is a very fair entry level raid. The tuning isn't overly challenging (although elegon seems like it is very tightly tuned) but the bosses do have mechanics that you do have to follow or you will die. I don't think a 5/10% nerf does much good on a fight like SG. If you stand in stuff and don't taunt correctly you are going to die.


Remember 5/10% nerf and people running it in 476 gear should make a considerable difference.

Your running it around 460-470 gear now with most raids.

By the time the nerf is in, everyone will be full or close to full LFR gear, and probably have a few 483 LFR pieces as well.

Oh hey did they fix normal mode valor yet and how much is it giving on the bosses that are working?
Edited by Sarosha on 10/5/2012 11:42 AM PDT
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10/05/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Naumu
but that's not exactly the target audience for LFR. If you are a solo / unguilded / casual player, Sha is basically not available to you.


Why should it be to someone like that? make some damn friends. Join a guild. I really don't see why all the crying happened when it's quite easy - especially with the 476 boots from Sha/trinkets from Coren - to hit 463 and shows people put the tiniest bit of effort into getting ready. And honestly, like Ninja said you can easily pug this jokester of a "boss," it requires no thought process at all. We had ~2-3 pugs trying to snatch it away from us by spam taunting to reset it, but they failed hard. There is no benefit of being in a guild group for the likes of Sha, since it's completely random on the loot front.

Oh, and they also lowered some 489 epics to honored instead of keeping it revered.


The difficulty of the boss is determined by the competency of the griefers not the difficulty of the boss.
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90 Human Rogue
10980
10/05/2012 11:42 AMPosted by Sarosha
Remember 5/10% nerf and people running it in 476 gear should make a considerable difference.


I don't know that it will. Overloads hit pretty hard. Also if your raid fails and gets petrafied its not damage that wipes you, its the fact you are unable to act and the boss resets.

10/05/2012 11:42 AMPosted by Sarosha
Oh hey did they fix normal mode valor yet and how much is it giving on the bosses that are working?


We actually never experienced a bug with valor off the bosses. They are dropping 25 VP per.

10/05/2012 11:43 AMPosted by Sarosha
The difficulty of the boss is determined by the competency of the griefers not the difficulty of the boss.


If you can't be more competent than some idiot spamming taunt you have bigger problems than getting a sha kill.
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
10/05/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Postonforums
LFR Stone Guard explosion is only 125k, you'll be healing through lots of them in LFR.

Heh, yeah. I'm playing a Shadow Priest now, and I my first thought about LFR was to check off my survival skills for overloads.

At least we now know why the Glyph of Dispersion exists. To eat every single overload in LFR . . .
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17665
10/05/2012 11:43 AMPosted by Sarosha
The difficulty of the boss is determined by the competency of the griefers not the difficulty of the boss.


Pretty much why LFR is a bad system
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The difficulty of the boss is determined by the competency of the griefers not the difficulty of the boss.


Pretty much why LFR is a bad system


That was refering to the Sha.

A hidden rogue who keeps tagging it, but not flagging is very hard to deal with.

How competent the people trying to keep you from downing Sha is what determines how hard sha is.

Some of the things Ive seen.

Healer assassination (one person always manages to get flagged which instantly flags all your healers.)

Unflagged tagging

Taunt and reset

Pulling packs of mobs then suiciding or dumping aggro (feign death or such)

Running through aoes to flag people, (I know this isnt supposed to, but it does sometimes anyway)
Edited by Sarosha on 10/5/2012 12:20 PM PDT
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90 Troll Hunter
11255
10/05/2012 12:17 PMPosted by Sarosha
A hidden rogue who keeps tagging it, but not flagging is very hard to deal with.


What? this is the thing he's talking about with dumb/etc. Your whole raid AoE's the hell out of the spawn point when the steam is shooting up, usually DND's work the best. It's not hard if you are a tiny bit beyond dumb.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10970
10/05/2012 10:59 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
363 meant that someone actually put effort into their gear. It meant they ran probably in the 40-60 heroic range. Raiding with people who actually care about raiding... not a bad thing. Raiding with people who expect to ride the blazey-train to free purples is.


You can still easily run 40-60 heroics and still not have a 363 ilv due to RNG, which is again what the fix is combating. RNG is RNG is RNG. I cannot stress this enough. Not to mention LFR is meant for people who CANNOT put forth the same time as us, which is why they are running LFR and not normals. Again, don't blame the system, but the player base itself for what has happened after LFR.

10/05/2012 10:59 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
We all realize it, we just don't want it spilling into real raids like it has done every time the casual crowd gets a nerf in the past.


Keeping LFR at 363 doesn't fix that problem, and nothing really will outside of abandoning that type of player base (which will never happen), but it does fix the problem of getting screwed by the RNG without having to drop a crap ton of gold for gear that will get replaced in a week. This isn't a problem for the progression raiding crowd, but it is a big one for the casual crowd, which is what LFR was actually made for.
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A hidden rogue who keeps tagging it, but not flagging is very hard to deal with.


What? this is the thing he's talking about with dumb/etc. Your whole raid AoE's the hell out of the spawn point when the steam is shooting up, usually DND's work the best. It's not hard if you are a tiny bit beyond dumb.


What was happening was as soon as the tanks moved in the rogue would tag and run, and then we had to call back all the dps to get out of range to reset the tag.

It was incredibly frustrating.

Im not too worried about this because this is going to be the last world boss we are likely to ever see.
Edited by Sarosha on 10/5/2012 12:23 PM PDT
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