I'm still confused Its not game breaking by any means, and no one is saying it is. I don't think you understand the purpose of this "nerf". Its only in place to correct problems with RNG, which there are some. Hell, I still have some guildies who have cleared 4/6 with me and STILL aren't at 463 ilv simply because of drops just not showing up. And trust me, I know they've ran a crap ton of heroics because I've ran with many of them many, many times. So you want blizzard to take away yet another choice we have? no thanks. Please quote me where I said that Blizzard should take away crafted gear. I am saying that it should not have to be used for casual progression. Having the use crafted gear to go from heroic 5 mans to LFR is silly, and is completely against the idea of LFR itself. Again, the purpose of this nerf is NOT for the raiding crowd who are already going through MSV. It is for that huge crowd of people who cannot raid on a regular basis, nor have time to do so and can still see content. Sadly yes, bad players ruin the system, but that just means you need to hate the player base, not the system itself which has no choice but to adapt.
Again, its not about the difficulty. Its about removing some RNG from the system. LFR is not like a normal raid where if you are good enough you can simply walk in and preform regardless of your gear. You have to actually queue up for it and meet a minimum requirement to enter, and that does make a difference in how the system needs to be ran. I find it funny though that the only person who actually realizes what this "nerf" was for is Waste. Seriously guys, it is NOT for your standard progression raider and never was. |
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Edited by Ninjablaze on 10/5/12 11:01 AM (PDT)
Tell me this when you pull NORMAL stone guards the first time. Then tell me that when you pull it the 25th time. And again the 35th. If you thought magmaw was hard I very excited to see you try SG.
363 meant that someone actually put effort into their gear. It meant they ran probably in the 40-60 heroic range. Raiding with people who actually care about raiding... not a bad thing. Raiding with people who expect to ride the blazey-train to free purples is.
We all realize it, we just don't want it spilling into real raids like it has done every time the casual crowd gets a nerf in the past. |
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We aren't starting our raid team for a couple of weeks yet, but I did take a peek at the concept, and my first thought was, "I wonder how you modify it for LFR?" Obviously I haven't tried it yet (we don't kick off our raiding season until 10/23), but just looking at it, it should be an interesting change of pace for people expecting a Morchok-level first boss . . . |
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Thanks I think! No really thanks. You know it's funny considering I've been almost non stop dungeon leveling (I've completed 67 heroic Pandarian heroic runs since I hit 90 Sep 30th) and have got no - Chest Wrists Helm Shoulders Belt Offhand I know it's just 'luck' but stepping into a MV raid at a ilvl of 454 while obtaining two pieces of ilvl 489 gear and killing first 3 bosses STILL doesn't let me Que for LFR. Now that's just plain silly. |
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Edited by Cizzle on 10/5/12 11:16 AM (PDT)
It's not normal mode SG. It's LFR. The two are not the same, nor do they provide similar rewards. I doubt EVERYONE in your first normal mode raid had full 463 as of a week ago. You had no ilvl requirement to run normal, in fact, so this change literally has no impact beyond LFR.
Again, it's LFR. Not normal mode. Not hard mode. Don't conflate the two (or three) together. |
I took a peak at the dungeon jounral. It appears they left all the mechanics in but just made none of them matter. Overload hits you for 1/4 of the damage it does on normal. Petrification lasts for like 10 seconds instead of wiping you. I wouldn't be all that shocked if there where only 2 dogs.
Honestly looking at the fight doesn't even do it justice. I expected it to be an absolute faceroll. While it wasn't insane it was far from a faceroll. It is definitely not morchok. My old guild (which wasn't that good) did 0 beta testing. We walked in the first night and 1 shot morchok. The instance as a whole is a very fair entry level raid. The tuning isn't overly challenging (although elegon seems like it is very tightly tuned) but the bosses do have mechanics that you do have to follow or you will die. I don't think a 5/10% nerf does much good on a fight like SG. If you stand in stuff and don't taunt correctly you are going to die. |
I took a peak at the dungeon jounral. It appears they left all the mechanics in but just made none of them matter. Overload hits you for 1/4 of the damage it does on normal. Petrification lasts for like 10 seconds instead of wiping you. I wouldn't be all that shocked if there where only 2 dogs.I bet it'll be 3 dogs with 25m LFR, but you will be able to either suck at tanking and just have the healers pick up the slack from much reduced damage, or have good tanks and have it not matter much. I'm assuming the damage and mechanics from chains, pools, and mines will probably be greatly reduced too, although it'll probably still be there (maybe just no root and longer time between casts)?. I do hope they make it so the lone dog doesn't take reduced damage though since I forsee half the DPS attacking a dog that isn't taking damage otherwise. |
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I don't disagree with what you are saying but you are selling yourself a little short wearing Cata shoulders/belt. Surely you've seen some 429/437/450 ilvl quest rewards? |
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LFR Stone Guard explosion is only 125k, you'll be healing through lots of them in LFR.
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Edited by Naumu on 10/5/12 11:43 AM (PDT)
but that's not exactly the target audience for LFR. If you are a solo / unguilded / casual player, Sha is basically not available to you. Why should it be to someone like that? make some damn friends. Join a guild. I really don't see why all the crying happened when it's quite easy - especially with the 476 boots from Sha/trinkets from Coren - to hit 463 and shows people put the tiniest bit of effort into getting ready. And honestly, like Ninja said you can easily pug this jokester of a "boss," it requires no thought process at all. We had ~2-3 pugs trying to snatch it away from us by spam taunting to reset it, but they failed hard. There is no benefit of being in a guild group for the likes of Sha, since it's completely random on the loot front. Oh, and they also lowered some 489 epics to honored instead of keeping it revered. |
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Edited by Sarosha on 10/5/12 11:42 AM (PDT)
We aren't starting our raid team for a couple of weeks yet, but I did take a peek at the concept, and my first thought was, "I wonder how you modify it for LFR?" Remember 5/10% nerf and people running it in 476 gear should make a considerable difference. Your running it around 460-470 gear now with most raids. By the time the nerf is in, everyone will be full or close to full LFR gear, and probably have a few 483 LFR pieces as well. Oh hey did they fix normal mode valor yet and how much is it giving on the bosses that are working? |
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The difficulty of the boss is determined by the competency of the griefers not the difficulty of the boss. |
I don't know that it will. Overloads hit pretty hard. Also if your raid fails and gets petrafied its not damage that wipes you, its the fact you are unable to act and the boss resets.
We actually never experienced a bug with valor off the bosses. They are dropping 25 VP per.
If you can't be more competent than some idiot spamming taunt you have bigger problems than getting a sha kill. |
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Heh, yeah. I'm playing a Shadow Priest now, and I my first thought about LFR was to check off my survival skills for overloads. At least we now know why the Glyph of Dispersion exists. To eat every single overload in LFR . . . |
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Edited by Sarosha on 10/5/12 12:20 PM (PDT)
The difficulty of the boss is determined by the competency of the griefers not the difficulty of the boss. That was refering to the Sha. A hidden rogue who keeps tagging it, but not flagging is very hard to deal with. How competent the people trying to keep you from downing Sha is what determines how hard sha is. Some of the things Ive seen. Healer assassination (one person always manages to get flagged which instantly flags all your healers.) Unflagged tagging Taunt and reset Pulling packs of mobs then suiciding or dumping aggro (feign death or such) Running through aoes to flag people, (I know this isnt supposed to, but it does sometimes anyway) |
What? this is the thing he's talking about with dumb/etc. Your whole raid AoE's the hell out of the spawn point when the steam is shooting up, usually DND's work the best. It's not hard if you are a tiny bit beyond dumb. |
You can still easily run 40-60 heroics and still not have a 363 ilv due to RNG, which is again what the fix is combating. RNG is RNG is RNG. I cannot stress this enough. Not to mention LFR is meant for people who CANNOT put forth the same time as us, which is why they are running LFR and not normals. Again, don't blame the system, but the player base itself for what has happened after LFR.
Keeping LFR at 363 doesn't fix that problem, and nothing really will outside of abandoning that type of player base (which will never happen), but it does fix the problem of getting screwed by the RNG without having to drop a crap ton of gold for gear that will get replaced in a week. This isn't a problem for the progression raiding crowd, but it is a big one for the casual crowd, which is what LFR was actually made for. |
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Edited by Sarosha on 10/5/12 12:23 PM (PDT)
A hidden rogue who keeps tagging it, but not flagging is very hard to deal with. What was happening was as soon as the tanks moved in the rogue would tag and run, and then we had to call back all the dps to get out of range to reset the tag. It was incredibly frustrating. Im not too worried about this because this is going to be the last world boss we are likely to ever see. |
