LFR iLevel Requirement currently too high.

90 Worgen Druid
14570


And that plan is the only reason normal mode was started as hard as it was. Here's hoping those who like the initial difficulty (and I sincerely hope you're having a good time in it) understand that when the nerf waves roll through later.


Im very convinced the nerfs are going to start early and hit hard.

The devs have a bad track record of communication between teams. Its the same problem that hit honor and justice.

Someone didnt look at the effect of LFR 3-5 on normal MV.

If LFR 3-5 drops 483 tier gear, its probably going to be better than 489 non tier gear, this makes running LFR 3-5 more rewarding than running MV normal.

This means that Normal MV is going to have to get hit with nerfs hard enough to keep it from becoming a wasteland when LFR 3-5 hit.


I didn't realize MSV dropped tier gear.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Hunter
12280
10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
Assuming you can get gear from Sha, which is more RNG.


The boots are NOT RNG, they are a 100% drop after they added the quest item from him. Everyone gets it.

10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
I'm not saying it's impossible, rabble rabble rabble. But it's being adjusted so that it's more accessible.


.....They changed the rep on necks/rings (maybe others? idk) from Revered to Honored to provide accessibility, and that's easy to get. I was even ~4-5 days late on GL rep and I'm some ways into Honored. I thought I missed a quest to pick them up but it was that stupid yellow quest at the Ruins of G-whatever.

10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
Or on an overpopulated server any Sha kills turn into a complete mess of 100+ people all trying to flag and kill each other.


Yes I know, we had a regular que of 1500-2000 every single day, and we've had ~2-3 other raids trying to taunt-reset Sha from us.

10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
PvP gear? Why are you even suggesting that. I'll wait the week before you're complaining about these scrubs in pvp in 'your' raids. Seriously let that sink in.


Uhm....you do realize the PvP gear doesn't sacrifice stats like it used to, right? it's perfectly fine to use PvP gear.
Edited by Naumu on 10/7/2012 12:31 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
VP stuff that not everyone can reach as of yet. With the cheaper pieces still requiring two weeks of caps to obtain just one.


you can get 489 vp gear without doing ANY dailies, in the case of Klaxxi, and only a few dailies in the other case. With the nerfs to reps, you get VP faster than you can spend it.

10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
Assuming you can get gear from Sha, which is more RNG. Or on an overpopulated server any Sha kills turn into a complete mess of 100+ people all trying to flag and kill each other.


RNG in your brain decides if you can right click the corpse or not, I guess? It's a quest item that everyone gets.

10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
Crafted gear that is either expensive and or tedious to make. Some professions have that easy, others such as Blacksmithing got completely effed over right now. Or for those such as myself that go double gathering to help supply my guild, and play the AH game.


MMOs and tedium, go hand in hand, expensive? well, that's the cost of getting into raid finder week 1 of availability I guess? Sometimes, you should have to put in more effort than pushing a "que and afk" button.

10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
PvP gear? Why are you even suggesting that. I'll wait the week before you're complaining about these scrubs in pvp in 'your' raids. Seriously let that sink in.


PvP gear is equivalent to pve gear this expansion. Many BIS items for me are PVP items because of the budgetting and fact they're gem slotted.

10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
You're ducking the problem by giving cop out answers. The requirements are being adjusted toward 460 because they're too tedious as of right now. Other gear is available, yes. But not -every- player plays like -you- do. Blizzard has to make it accessible enough that people can put in some effort and be rewarded, without having to go the extreme end of this tedious and unnecessarily RNG dependent grind.


Not every player plays like me, heres 12 alternatives "Those are all too hard, I'd prefer to afk"
There's Accessible, and then there's "Hit 90, do LFR, log off til next week"

Every expansion this term accessibility gets broader, and broader, It's to the point now, that requiring a full set of BLUES is "Inaccessible".... I shudder to think when having 2 trinkets is considered inaccessible when Emerald Dream hits.

10/07/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Shabayev
I'm not saying it's impossible, rabble rabble rabble. But it's being adjusted so that it's more accessible. But making it unnecessarily tedious to even so much as get in is not the best design for LFR.


I guess it's bad design to push any form of character progression, in liu of having a game where the goal is to just do enough to get into the welfare office.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
13790
later.


Keyword there, is probably why the nerfs were so sour for DS, as they came sooner, especially considering that it required holiday raiding.


From dev comments, they have a time limit of weeks, not months, on how long they can wait before nerfs, since they say some people just give up if progression stalls that long.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18360
Uhm....you do realize the PvP gear doesn't sacrifice stats like it used to, right? it's perfectly fine to use PvP gear.


It doesn't? It still sinks stat itemization into pvp resilience and pvp power, neither of which are any good in pve. And I can guarantee the forums would soon be fill of complaints about "pvp geared scrubs in my lfr".

However looking at wowhead crafted pvp gear is only ilevel 450. Honor point gear is either 458 or 464 (not sure) and I bet is very, very grindy to get. So this time around pvp gear may not be a shortcut into lfr like it was in cata.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
13790
10/07/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Murdina
It doesn't? It still sinks stat itemization into pvp resilience and pvp power, neither of which are any good in pve.


Neither of those figures into the computation of the ilvl of an item.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Hunter
12280
10/07/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Murdina
It doesn't? It still sinks stat itemization into pvp resilience and pvp power, neither of which are any good in pve. And I can guarantee the forums would soon be fill of complaints about "pvp geared scrubs in my lfr".


You obviously haven't even looked at the PvP gear.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18360
Neither of those figures into the computation of the ilvl of an item.

Wowhead is down at the moment, but from memory I saw two item levels for the same pieces - 458 and 464. The 458 might be the pve score with pve pow/resil taken out, the 464 the pvp score.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
0
10/07/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Murdina
It still sinks stat itemization into pvp resilience and pvp powe


No, those don't take up item budget anymore.

10/07/2012 12:38 PMPosted by Osmeric
From dev comments, they have a time limit of weeks, not months, on how long they can wait before nerfs, since they say some people just give up if progression stalls that long.


Which is kind of why i've been saying we shouldn't be rushing people into content.

The faster you shove them into LFR, the faster the nerfs need to hit. Last thing you want to do is speed the process up. Especially after playing the "we can't make content fast enough" card.
Edited by Arianity on 10/7/2012 12:53 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
10/07/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Murdina
Wowhead is down at the moment, but from memory I saw two item levels for the same pieces - 458 and 464. The 458 might be the pve score with pve pow/resil taken out, the 464 the pvp score.


Resilience/PVP Power don't touch the formula used to create the items stat budget.

the 458 pvp gear is exactly the same budget as 458 pve gear.

When they nerfed the pvp gear's level budget, they increased the amount of resil and pvp power on the gear, in order to keep it's power relatively the same in a pvp environment.

PvP gear will be a generally lower item level in order to allow pve gear to still be superior vs NPCs.

The only time someone is a pvp scrub, is when they're wearing pvp gear with the wrong stats for their spec. But As was said, looking PURELY at the stats (People didn't do this, back when 400 pvp items were being called worse than 359, because of ignorance), you'll find many pvp items completely viable pve upgrades, especially with how low the average gear is right now.

10/07/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Murdina
It doesn't? It still sinks stat itemization into pvp resilience and pvp power, neither of which are any good in pve. And I can guarantee the forums would soon be fill of complaints about "pvp geared scrubs in my lfr".


Just like these forums are literally filled with "ELEMENTAL SHAMAN ROLLED ON MY SPIRIT GEAR"

On the internet, you can choose to be anything you want to be. Most people choose to be stupid, so you have complaints about everything. There was a post complaining about too much mail dropping, and one about too much cloth dropping, another leather and the final plate, again, just because there's complaint topics on subjects, doesn't make them a problem.
Edited by Postonforums on 10/7/2012 12:55 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
13790
10/07/2012 12:49 PMPosted by Murdina
Wowhead is down at the moment, but from memory I saw two item levels for the same pieces - 458 and 464. The 458 might be the pve score with pve pow/resil taken out, the 464 the pvp score.


Crafted PvP items are ilvl 450. You may be thinking of the honor gear, which they nerfed from 464 down to 458, since people were going to use it to get into LFR.

In nerfing that gear, they reduced the stats so that the ilvl was similarly reduced. They then increased PvP power and resilience, to make the gear as powerful in PvP as it had been before. This buff did not change the ilvl, since those stats do not contribute to ilvl. They are a separate "knob" that they turn to make the gear more attractive in PvP than PvE gear of the same (or even somewhat higher) ilvl.
Reply Quote
Assuming you can get gear from Sha, which is more RNG. Or on an overpopulated server any Sha kills turn into a complete mess of 100+ people all trying to flag and kill each other.

VP stuff that not everyone can reach as of yet. With the cheaper pieces still requiring two weeks of caps to obtain just one.

Crafted gear that is either expensive and or tedious to make. Some professions have that easy, others such as Blacksmithing got completely effed over right now.

PvP gear? Why are you even suggesting that. I'll wait the week before you're complaining about these scrubs in pvp in 'your' raids. Seriously let that sink in.


boots on sha are garunteed if you kill him.

pvp gear is fine in pve now, in some cases better.

etc.

And that plan is the only reason normal mode was started as hard as it was. Here's hoping those who like the initial difficulty (and I sincerely hope you're having a good time in it) understand that when the nerf waves roll through later.

It really depends on how fast they are.

10/07/2012 11:35 AMPosted by Sarosha
Im very convinced the nerfs are going to start early and hit hard.


I doubt it. Like you've said yourself in the past, they dont need to rush since we actually have real content this teir.


Yes but they hit the problem of the seperate teams not communicating again.

LFR 3-5 drops 483 tier

MV drops 489 non tier.

This makes LFR more attractive gear wise than MV normal.
Reply Quote


Im very convinced the nerfs are going to start early and hit hard.

The devs have a bad track record of communication between teams. Its the same problem that hit honor and justice.

Someone didnt look at the effect of LFR 3-5 on normal MV.

If LFR 3-5 drops 483 tier gear, its probably going to be better than 489 non tier gear, this makes running LFR 3-5 more rewarding than running MV normal.

This means that Normal MV is going to have to get hit with nerfs hard enough to keep it from becoming a wasteland when LFR 3-5 hit.


I didn't realize MSV dropped tier gear.


It doesnt thats the point

483 lfr tier is better than 489 MV normal non tier.

So MV normal has to be nerfed to the point where its only a bit harder than LFR 3-5
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
Sarosha, you said in the other topic you weren't going to be crying nerfs on everything before it's even out.

Why'd you break that promise? :(
Reply Quote
90 Orc Shaman
13550
Better no be flippin' nerfs in a couple weeks. This is a tier that actually could last 6-8 months.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18360
Wowhead is back up more or less and I see what you mean about pve and pvp stat itemization now.

Cryptwarden's Breastplate
Contender's Revenant Breastplate

Two items, same type, same ilevel. One pve and one pvp. They both have exactly the same amount of secondary, non-pvp, stats.

This could be unfair though to have a pvp item have the same pve stats as a pve item of the same ilevel, but also have a lot of pvp stats on top of that. I guess they'll continue to make pvp items have a lower ilevel than equivalent pve items - which will make it harder to use pvp items to get into lfr.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
10/07/2012 01:27 PMPosted by Murdina
This could be unfair though to have a pvp item have the same pve stats as a pve item of the same ilevel, but also have a lot of pvp stats on top of that. I guess they'll continue to make pvp items have a lower ilevel than equivalent pve items - which will make it harder to use pvp items to get into lfr.


Ya, the honor/JP thing is just a debacle from them trying too hard to "balance" this system.
Reply Quote
100 Human Paladin
13790
10/07/2012 01:27 PMPosted by Murdina
This could be unfair though to have a pvp item have the same pve stats as a pve item of the same ilevel, but also have a lot of pvp stats on top of that. I guess they'll continue to make pvp items have a lower ilevel than equivalent pve items - which will make it harder to use pvp items to get into lfr.


The game was and is using ilvl for PvE mechanics, so it made sense to remove PvP stats from ilvl computation. Players will now have to figure out if a PvP item of ilvl X is worth more than a PvE item of ilvl X + Y, but that's probably a small problem.
Reply Quote
Sarosha, you said in the other topic you weren't going to be crying nerfs on everything before it's even out.

Why'd you break that promise? :(


Im not

THis isnt a nerf call, just look at the logic for a minute, they screwed up.

They didnt communicate between teams, its the same problem as the honor/jp

I honestly didnt see this in beta in either, I usually look for this sort of stupid crap.

Do you think 483 tier is going to be better than 489 non tier, if so you see the problem. Basically there is no reason to run Mogu on normal once heart and fear LFR come out.

Whoops...
Edited by Sarosha on 10/7/2012 2:21 PM PDT
Reply Quote
This could be unfair though to have a pvp item have the same pve stats as a pve item of the same ilevel, but also have a lot of pvp stats on top of that. I guess they'll continue to make pvp items have a lower ilevel than equivalent pve items - which will make it harder to use pvp items to get into lfr.


The game was and is using ilvl for PvE mechanics, so it made sense to remove PvP stats from ilvl computation. Players will now have to figure out if a PvP item of ilvl X is worth more than a PvE item of ilvl X + Y, but that's probably a small problem.


Yeah but they are going to have to surpress honor gear down to justice to keep it from being used to raid.

Which is going to create like a 40ilevel gap between honor and conquest.

Which is going to completly wreck battlegrounds as 1 conquest player will equal about 3 or 4 honor geared players.

Again whoops

Battllegrounds in a few weeks will be a spectator sport as the honor people just watch from the bleachers as the conquest people duke it out.
Edited by Sarosha on 10/7/2012 2:35 PM PDT
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]