Huggywuggles v. MoP reputation solutions

90 Gnome Warrior
13000
Stop making everything account bound. >_<

Mounts and pets were find and achievements were a nice compromise but if everything keeps getting combined, then there's less to do for those who don't like max level end game (dungeons, raids, etc).

If reputations are shared then make it be opt-in.

They had a GOOD solution already in Wrath: Tabards for rep in dungeons and badges bought with badges.


The only problem with that Shae is that people were forsaking the actual world and, instead, choosing to run instances ad infinitum (which IS a choice as is questing). However, by forsaking one option for another, it diminishes the effort both physical and financial Blizzard puts into content.

On the flip side of that coin, we have to ask how do we create a middle ground? I feel that we're, as a whole, in this discussion are on to something REALLY good here. With a possible Partial Account Bound Rep and tabards which are gated by rep standing i.e. revered (going to exalted may be a bit much) but boa, this could lessen the pain for alts and keep people invested or even INTERESTED in BOTH the tab gains and actual daily gains.

Which leads me to THIS question, would doing dailies have to necessitate negating the tabard gains and vice versa? Personally, I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I LOVE the idea, on the other....I don't want to run out of 'stuff' too quickly. So, what do you think?
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90 Gnome Warrior
13000


If you're not willing to put forth SOME effort to enjoy what you enjoy, than most likely yes.


Huggy I doubt that you care, but I lost alot of respect for you today with this thread.
I really thought you were more open-minded than this. There should be a place for all types of players in this game and to say that questing and mindless dailies is the only way to earn your stripes really turns me off to this expac.

Apparently all that questing and running around in little circles doing dailies has turned you into another daily-zombie. I'm very disappointed that one of the more reasonable voices in this forum has gone over to the dark side.

/dislike


Read through the thread and perhaps you may see there's a 'hidden method' to my madness. Out of disagreement came understanding and perhaps even agreement.

The entire point is to demonstrate that an 'all or nothing' solution isn't going to work. However, a middle ground that allows those who choose their own adventure (so to speak) can have their needs met, but first must put forth a bit of effort.
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90 Gnome Warrior
13000
Here's a thought I had and posted in another thread to at least alleviate the repetition in these grinds. Keep in mind that total rep gain for each day would remain the same regardless of the path you take for the day:

I would like to see them add a little variety. I had an idea I posted elsewhere I think would work well to alleviate the boredom with rep grinds. Put tabards back in and give players the option to either grind rep via tabards in instances or thru daily quests on a daily basis. What I mean is that if you put on your tabards and gain rep in an instance then your dailies are disabled until midnight. Likewise if you turn in a single daily your tabard is then disabled until midnight. Total points acquired per day could be the same, but at least then you would have a daily option and some variety in how you accumulate your points. Hell, they could even have it work in BGs for that matter. Put that tabard on and get so many rep points per win in a BG - then instance and daily quest rep gain is disabled until midnight.


That's not a bad idea and it helps keep people on an even footing. Something else that crossed my mind, and bear in mind this is something that I've had to think long and hard about...is this:

What about if to gain MAXIMUM rep gains, you could nerf the daily gains AND the tabard gains so that by doing BOTH to their maximum gains, you'd HAVE to do both dailies and instances? Do you think maybe that's going a bit TOO far by forcing people into play styles they DON'T want to do/like or do you think it would be better to encourage people to participate in both types of playstyle for maximum gain?
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90 Gnome Warrior
13000
10/03/2012 12:25 PMPosted by Gunny
What about if to gain MAXIMUM rep gains, you could nerf the daily gains AND the tabard gains so that by doing BOTH to their maximum gains, you'd HAVE to do both dailies and instances? Do you think maybe that's going a bit TOO far by forcing people into play styles they DON'T want to do/like or do you think it would be better to encourage people to participate in both types of playstyle for maximum gain?


I think that might be pushing people into playstyles they don't necessarily enjoy.

What about a combination of tabard/daily quests with a weekly cap like JP/VP? That way it's not so punitive if you miss a few days, and doesn't feel so much like a daily chore. Imagine the guy who can't play at all during the week trying to keep up with rep.. poor bastard.


Well theoretically, there's already a weekly cap on rep since you can only do dailies 7 times a week and the same would apply with a tabard option. I don't think ensuring a 100% equal footing for non-participating players (either way) would be a good thing.

Sometimes, if you're unable to play, you're just unable to play and shouldn't be rewarded for it. It's a tough call. Reps are, after all, entirely optional up to a point.
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13 Troll Druid
8135
Doing quests to level up is fine, it tells the history and some of them are very fun, i don't have problem with it. I have problem doing the same quest over and over and over, day after day for weeks or even months, that's not "challenging", it don't require "effort", it only requires enough patience to don't die of boredom.

I know that for some of you to do the same thing over and over day after day is fun and exciting, more power to you, you have a different playstyle than me and i respect it, but some of us enjoy doing different things, for some of us collecting the same 20 pieces of meat every day is not that fun. After all, one of the selling points of this expansion was that players would be able to progress doing whatever they enjoy most.
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Fair enough. How do you feel about tabard accessibility? For instance, do you feel the Tabards should be available at a certain reputation point i.e. revered or honored?


I think it kind of defeats the purpose to make someone run dailies to get the tabard so they won't have to run dailies. That said, I wouldn't complain if they decided we needed to get honored with a faction to get their tabard.

I think a better way to handle that would be to tie the tabard access to dungeons somehow. Maybe you have to complete each 5man once in order to unlock the "tabard vendor" and purchase the tabards. or something like that.
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1 Gnome Priest
0
I'm okay with rep grinds, it's the Lesser Charm of Good Fortune weekly grind that I'm not thrilled with.
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10/03/2012 12:25 PMPosted by Gunny
What about if to gain MAXIMUM rep gains, you could nerf the daily gains AND the tabard gains so that by doing BOTH to their maximum gains, you'd HAVE to do both dailies and instances? Do you think maybe that's going a bit TOO far by forcing people into play styles they DON'T want to do/like or do you think it would be better to encourage people to participate in both types of playstyle for maximum gain?


I think that might be pushing people into playstyles they don't necessarily enjoy.

What about a combination of tabard/daily quests with a weekly cap like JP/VP? That way it's not so punitive if you miss a few days, and doesn't feel so much like a daily chore. Imagine the guy who can't play at all during the week trying to keep up with rep.. poor bastard.


What is wrong with letting people play how they want to play?

If they want to put on a tabard and get rep, do it.
If they want to do dailies, do it.
If they want to do it all at once, go for it.
If they want to take several months, that's fine.
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90 Gnome Warrior
13000
10/03/2012 12:38 PMPosted by Elgreezy
Fair enough. How do you feel about tabard accessibility? For instance, do you feel the Tabards should be available at a certain reputation point i.e. revered or honored?


I think it kind of defeats the purpose to make someone run dailies to get the tabard so they won't have to run dailies. That said, I wouldn't complain if they decided we needed to get honored with a faction to get their tabard.

I think a better way to handle that would be to tie the tabard access to dungeons somehow. Maybe you have to complete each 5man once in order to unlock the "tabard vendor" and purchase the tabards. or something like that.


Or maybe do it sort of like TBC style? For instance, say, Brewery gives automatic rep up to friendly and at honored, the Tabard opens up for Tillers, etc. etc.

But I'm in agreement that honored with a faction isn't a bad thing and is a reasonably easy grind.
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90 Gnome Warrior
13000
10/03/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Gunny
What is wrong with letting people play how they want to play?If they want to put on a tabard and get rep, do it.If they want to do dailies, do it.If they want to do it all at once, go for it.If they want to take several months, that's fine.


Well, if I understood his suggestion I was commenting on it was that to max each day you would have to dailies AND the tabard in instances. I'm all for letting people get rep how they want to and I think that is the weakness in the current system. Doing the same thing every day on top of feeling obligated to do it every day.

10/03/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Huggywuggles
Well theoretically, there's already a weekly cap on rep since you can only do dailies 7 times a week and the same would apply with a tabard option. I don't think ensuring a 100% equal footing for non-participating players (either way) would be a good thing.


In that sense there is a weekly cap, but what's the point in being punitive with it? If I don't have an hour a day EVERY day to sit down and grind out my points but I do have 3 or 4 hours on the weekend then what's the difference? Time invested is the same, and, like I mentioned, it feels less like a chore if I don't have to do it EVERY SINGLE day of the week to not feel like I'm missing out on something.

I'm not talking about getting more points in any given week than we do now, just a way to relieve the monotony and make it feel less grindy. Add in a little wiggle room and I think people will feel less constrained. Think of it like adjusted work schedules - four 10 hour days is the same as five 8 hour days.


Don't get me wrong, I get EXACTLY what you're saying. But then I have to ask how would that work, if for instance, you chose to do dailies rather than grind rep in instances via a tabard or would the tabard then become a necessity? That's the problem for me since it does favor the 'instance grinders' rather than the 'daily grinders' and frankly, I'm not even sure Blizz could handle it mechanically speaking.
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90 Undead Priest
0
I don't know why there's even discussion about "middle ground." Blizzard has their reasons for wanting to create long reputation grinds, making daily quests be integral to that grind, keeping progression at a slow pace in the impact of dailies (i.e. by giving small reputation boosts or by adding the addition content gate of special currency tokens that need to be earned through dailies instead of just being able to purchase faction items with gold).

All of those reasons are wrapped up in one goal: extend the length of the game by forcing players to repeat content they've already completed in order to obtain vanity items or gear benefits.

It feeds off of the traits that MMO's are routinely looked down upon for emphasizing. Dailies and reputation grinds are the embarrassing side of WoW. It's embarrassing no matter what the source of the grinding, whether its dungeon tabards or dailies. WoW certainly has its good points. The thrill of overcoming difficult PvE challenges with friends and the excitement of PvP are where the best memories are made in this game. But grinds? The more they're relied on, the more it harms Blizzard in the long term. I'm not saying that they drive people to quit, I think it probably helps Blizzard in the short term by keeping people more invested. But I do think that when people DO quit, it makes it less likely those people will come back. It makes it less likely that people will recommend the game to others too. Dailies and reputation grinds aren't a good aspect to the game, they're a disclaimer you mention when talking about things that ARE good aspects of the game.

"Middle ground" is just a way of saying, "Keep some of the bad even if you're willing to do better." Why not just encourage them to go as far as possible in improving the game for the player. Reputation grinds should be minimized and eliminated as much as possible. A better reputation system would be one that was intrinsically linked with the plot and not on repetition of previously completed quests or dungeons. "Oh, you killed the ancient god being that's been threatening our people? You're exalted! Because killing god beings or ancient evils is pretty amazing."

Instead we get things like, "Oh, you killed the giant evil that was threatening the land? That's cool. But don't think we're going to consider you exalted for that. Nope. We only reserve that privilege for the guys who fight off that there daily nuisance 20 times."
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Community Manager
We're working on a change for a future patch that will make it easier to gain reputation with a specific faction on every alt on your Battle.net account, after you reach a certain reputation with that faction on another character.

Stay tuned for more information on this, likely coming before the end of the week.
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90 Orc Shaman
8355
We're working on a change for a future patch that will make it easier to gain reputation with a specific faction on every alt on your Battle.net account, after you reach a certain reputation with that faction on another character.

Stay tuned for more information on this, likely coming before the end of the week.


Oh thank you I was wondering about this too.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12220
I like to know there's something in the works. Thanks Zarhym.

On a similar note, I agree with many of the people in the thread; grinding it once is just fine, but I have 5 other 85's, two with professions that have the BiS recipes gated behind reputations. I don't mind doing it for my leather working, but maybe making the patterns account bound? I appreciate farming mote's, but having to grind all the way up on all of my 85's (not only in level, but rep) is seeming more and more tedious. It sort of defeats the purpose, being as I -leveled- those characters and professions in order not to have to pay obscene AH prices for enchants and tailored items.

I'd really like account bound rep, but I would settle for a tabard, or even a more reasonable reputation gain than 110 a daily. Either that, or allowing everyone to buy the exalted rewards and having them being account-bound, so that way you could just send them to your other toons.
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90 Gnome Warrior
13000
We're working on a change for a future patch that will make it easier to gain reputation with a specific faction on every alt on your Battle.net account, after you reach a certain reputation with that faction on another character.

Stay tuned for more information on this, likely coming before the end of the week.


VERY cool, Floaty Skull. I was kind of hoping we could have some details, but at least if there's something in the works, it's far better than nothing, right?
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