So what are Justice Points for?

90 Gnome Warlock
8810
It does seem like the intent of this design is to bring the heavy "slot-machine" style of gearing up back to dungeons, where your luck with drops and rolls is the primary factor in how quickly you are ready to raid.

Maybe this is an attempt to extend the life of content by making it take longer to start raiding, or maybe they see bringing back a high level of RNG to dungeons as more psychologically addictive.

Personally, I think this is an annoying mechanic to revive, but tolerable if necessary.

The main logical disconnect to me is that, given the new 458 ilvl on JP gear, the small gap from 458 to 463 on 2-3 pieces won't make any significant impact on your performance in normal mode raiding. This is not a barrier for people doing organized raids. But to the LFR raider, those JP pieces can prevent you from even participating if you don't have enough epics to offset them.

Why is the barrier to entry for the easy mode raid higher than that of the normal mode?

And if the casual LFR raider must have already totally exhausted heroic dungeons of loot before starting LFR, what content is the LFR raider doing for the rest of the week?
73 Gnome Death Knight
0
After reading most of the thread I will throw my 2 coppers in.

If the JP gear is meant to be a stepping stone to getting into heroics fine, totally going to tick some people off that used to use this to gear their toons for raiding or as an alternative to raiding, but I guess Blizzard will do what they want. I do not want to hear about how non-raiders don't deserve raid level gear, I raid so it won't affect me at all but neither will that dude standing at the stream fishing in their raid level gear that doesn't raid. All of this is beside the point.

Make JPs not worthless by doing what some have said in thread before me. Make a vendor that sells Spirit of Harmony for easier crafting, lets be fair the prices of the mounts are prohibitive enough from requiring the 18k piece.

Maybe think of making the JP gear BOE or at least purchasable for alts...it would help alleviate the grind alts face to get geared for heroics or even fill ins spots for LFR.

I personally don't have to have them as an alternative, would be nice for some alts that don't raid regularly but again I think Blizzard is trying to prolong the content by making it a longer grind. Is it an artificial step, absolutely, but hey it may achieve their goal or it may drive away people who don't raid and can't stand LFR when those people realize that they can no longer "gear out" their Toon.
90 Draenei Shaman
17255
10/03/2012 06:41 PMPosted by Daxxarri
What are you and what are we getting out of having a currency obtained from heroics give out loot that is useless to heroics?


I think that Justice Points are perhaps more of a stepping stone than they once were. They were originally added for those situations where RNG turns against you, and you haven't obtained a drop for a particular slot. Even if you didn't get the gear over successive runs, at least you have some Justice Points to help fill in the gaps in the meantime. They are returning to that intent more than being an alternative method of accruing Heroic level gear.

After you obtain your Heroic gear, it's true that Justice Points won't be as useful. Obviously, they can be turned over for Honor, and at some point in the future we may add trade materials or Heirlooms to the quartermasters.


Man, this is the first time I've really thought a Blue was totally off-base. You seriously don't know what you are talking about.

JP are LESS of a stepping stone than they have ever been. What Blizz also fails to realize is that VP as well are less of a stepping stone. (So you grind Rep for days to unlock a vendor, but don't have the valor to purchase the rewards -- C'mon, you seriously can't see why that pisses people off?)

The OP was correct -- there is no reason to purchase JP gear.

The problem is that JP/VP is a remnant of a now debunk system. The ONLY reason we have two tiers of points is because they were necessary when 10 and 25 man Raids rewarded different level gear.

Cata truncated the system, streamlining it in an effort to prevent all the badge turn-in problems. Downranking badges/marks sucked. The JP/VP system helped a lot.

Truth be told, Blizz should have simply left JP/VP with Cata gear and invented another Currency for MoP content. Instead, we get the worst of both worlds.

The problem is further truncated by the changes to PVP gear. Same ilvl PVP gear will always be better than PVE gear for the simple reason that it is multi-functional. So, not only is there little content and reason for JP gear, but there's also competition from Honor gear.

The BEST system MoP introduced was the coin system. And even that is flawed.

I know it's hard to admit when you've made a mistake, but you have. And the proof is all over the place -- dropping Honor gear ilvl, raising JP gear ilvl. JP gear is worthless. JP is nothing more than a funnel for Honor Points. If anyone at Blizz thinks otherwise you guys are seriously smoking the good stuff.
Community Manager
The current system is okay--it's heavily gated, to slow us down, and I get that. I do wish that reputations, as a result, were account-wide, because for the rest of my alts I'll spend the rest of my life doing dailies, and that is just...buh.


Just as a side note, since it's off topic for this thread, but we're actually working on a system that will make gaining reputations on your alternate characters a bit easier. More details on that will be coming soon.

Edit: Now with links: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230?page=1#1
Edited by Daxxarri on 10/4/2012 11:21 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17870
I agree it doesn't make sense. Especially if you were like me and vendored all the !@#$ty quest gear. Nothing I was getting had spirit so why would I take it? Regen in a new expansion is my most important stat and it was specifically designed not to be there for me so I was better off keeping my level 85 gear.

I ended up having to buy every piece I could off the AH. I did find about 2-3 pieces of 437 green gear with spirit but the AH pvp gear was so much better (more spirit, more int, more haste/mastery/crit) that it would have been stupid not to get them.

It's an interesting concept to have it "fill in the gaps" but it was poorly implemented. But again, half of it doesn't have spirit either.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17870
10/04/2012 10:02 AMPosted by Daxxarri
The current system is okay--it's heavily gated, to slow us down, and I get that. I do wish that reputations, as a result, were account-wide, because for the rest of my alts I'll spend the rest of my life doing dailies, and that is just...buh.


Just as a side note, since it's off topic for this thread, but we're actually working on a system that will make gaining reputations on your alternate characters a bit easier. More details on that will be coming soon.


We are asking you to make it account wide because we're already spending the time and effort to gain the rep on our mains.

We, your clients/customers, who pay you every month, so you all have jobs, are telling you this is what we want.

Once we gain rep on our mains we've spent our time earning it.
90 Troll Druid
8850
10/04/2012 10:02 AMPosted by Daxxarri
The current system is okay--it's heavily gated, to slow us down, and I get that. I do wish that reputations, as a result, were account-wide, because for the rest of my alts I'll spend the rest of my life doing dailies, and that is just...buh.


Just as a side note, since it's off topic for this thread, but we're actually working on a system that will make gaining reputations on your alternate characters a bit easier. More details on that will be coming soon.


That is good news, I seem to recall seeing something about that on MMO-champion.

I really do hope you're able to communicate all this feedback to the dev team and hopefully help out with the JP situation.
88 Human Warlock
4170


Yes, but a majority of valor gear only becomes available at revered for various factions.


Granted. You won't need all of those pieces to progress into raiding or LFR though. Hopefully, as you continue to do dailies (assuming they're something you want to do, that is), you'll gain enough reputation to allow you to pick up the occasional Revered level Valor piece to supplement your raiding set.

By the way, I don't want any of you to feel as though your feedback is falling on deaf ears. I'll make sure that your perspectives are shared with the development team. On the same token, I want to emphasize that Justice Points aren't useless, even if they don't fulfill the same role that we've grown accustomed to.


I like you Dax!!! Pretty cool that a blue is sitting and chatting about the thread instead of the usual " Working as intended" post then never hearing anything more about it.
90 Undead Rogue
13640
On a somewhat related note, can some priority be put to putting the tradegood vendor in for MoP items?

Because of the chosen Ilvl, because of the gated progression, because you can fill in any missing slots with a pvp honor piece that is practically as good as anything you will find off the JP vendors, I'm finding that on my level 90 character, I'm already floating thousands of JP with nothing to spend on.

I understand that the role of JP is a bit confused when it's been more of a "catch" up currency and we are in the first tier, but that's no reason to be wasting currency on nothing.
Edited by Furycrab on 10/4/2012 10:16 AM PDT
88 Human Warlock
4170
10/04/2012 10:09 AMPosted by Sidney
We, your clients/customers, who pay you every month, so you all have jobs, are telling you this is what we want.


I want, I want, I want........sounds like my 3yr old. lol
10/04/2012 10:02 AMPosted by Daxxarri
The current system is okay--it's heavily gated, to slow us down, and I get that. I do wish that reputations, as a result, were account-wide, because for the rest of my alts I'll spend the rest of my life doing dailies, and that is just...buh.


Just as a side note, since it's off topic for this thread, but we're actually working on a system that will make gaining reputations on your alternate characters a bit easier. More details on that will be coming soon.


Thanks for the (admittedly off-topic) response.

Has there been discussion about potentially making an updated Trade Goods JP vendor?
10/04/2012 10:02 AMPosted by Daxxarri
The current system is okay--it's heavily gated, to slow us down, and I get that. I do wish that reputations, as a result, were account-wide, because for the rest of my alts I'll spend the rest of my life doing dailies, and that is just...buh.


Just as a side note, since it's off topic for this thread, but we're actually working on a system that will make gaining reputations on your alternate characters a bit easier. More details on that will be coming soon.


How about something on LFR

Justice needs to match up with the entry requirement for LFR.

your just asking for a world of pain from your players next week if it doesnt.
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12015
Blizz wont understand this issue until lrf comes out and the casuals it is aimed at get frustrated at cant get in because they are missing 463 gear in 2-3 slots that wont drop and cant play long enough to grind dailies to grind out that 1 rep gated epic.

More and more people will get frustrated with the new world of grindcraft and quit. How does it make sense to make content aimed at causuals but make them grind like this to get into it. No one on this forum is asking for free epics or to walk into heroic raids on day one but honestly the lfr item lvl seems higher than it is to get into normal mode raids.

Also I am on a high pop server. I could get the quest from sha of anger to get epic boots but on my server you have 5-7 groups of 40 people each camping him on every respawn, this is hardly a reliable way to gear for lfr. I tried camping him for 1 hour to 30 min several times without being able to tag - complete waste of several hours of game time. after this didnt have enough time to go do my dailycraft quests for that day.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
3780
hey i suggest u guys dicuss putting spirit of harmonys on the jp vendor keep em bop but make it like 1250 per harmony not too expensive not like the mealstrom crystals were

ps(i dont know if anyone suggested this yet..)
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12015
It doesn't matter whether they upped jp gear ilvl or lowered lfr ilvl, at one point or another (much sooner than it should) JP will become useless if the only thing they're giving us to spend it on is gear. If JP has no value people stop running heroics or start playing the "drop group when the 1 thing I need is over" game. The real issue is that we need some tradeskill materials or SOH or SOMETHING other than just gear (heirlooms qualifying as gear also).

There has to be a reward to keep people in the LFD system for that system to work properly, and since that system is now a very vital part of so much of the community's gearing process it is imperative that that system is still working properly. Especially tanks and healers need a reason to keep running, or those queue times will get mighty long again.


I agree buying tokens for rep rewards or crafting mats would make the dungeons last longer.
73 Gnome Death Knight
0
10/04/2012 10:19 AMPosted by Donxiong


Just as a side note, since it's off topic for this thread, but we're actually working on a system that will make gaining reputations on your alternate characters a bit easier. More details on that will be coming soon.


Thanks for the (admittedly off-topic) response.

Has there been discussion about potentially making an updated Trade Goods JP vendor?


I think would alleviate a lot of concerns about JP being worthless. It won't address the concerns of people not being able to catch up to raid later on, but it would make my personal life easier.
hey i suggest u guys dicuss putting spirit of harmonys on the jp vendor keep em bop but make it like 1250 per harmony not too expensive not like the mealstrom crystals were

ps(i dont know if anyone suggested this yet..)


It's been my suggestion. Personally I think that would be too low. We don't want to completely devalue the crafted items--part of what makes them valuable is the time investment required to make them. I think 2.5k-3k per spirit would be fair, and would still put a premium on crafted items, causing those items to maintain a market value greater than the materials required to make them; furthermore, by giving this alternative to world-farming for motes, we'd be encouraging people who have attained their gear/etc to continue to farm roics (thus tanking, healing, etc.) to help out guildies with crafted gear or turn a profit.



I think would alleviate a lot of concerns about JP being worthless. It won't address the concerns of people not being able to catch up to raid later on, but it would make my personal life easier.


It does help with catching up to raids, because it makes farming the materials (read: the SoH) for epic crafted items easier to manage. My leatherworker (see avatar) can make chest and hands for all leather/mail specs after about a week of dailies rep with Golden Lotus--so the only thing stopping me from making that gear for my guildies (and myself) is the SoH limitations.
Edited by Donxiong on 10/4/2012 10:31 AM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17870
10/04/2012 10:15 AMPosted by Frylox
We, your clients/customers, who pay you every month, so you all have jobs, are telling you this is what we want.


I want, I want, I want........sounds like my 3yr old. lol


If your 3 year old was the one paying you and the reason you had a job, then your 3 year old should get what they're asking for.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13355
Personally, now that JP gear has no meaning to my 3 specs, I'm converting it to honor for PvP gear while I get my last 5 heroic pieces for my holy set.

After that, it's back to sharding the 1250 JP gear.
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