So what are Justice Points for?

1 Gnome Priest
0
10/03/2012 12:51 PMPosted by Daxxarri
No one seems to have mentioned it in this thread, or perhaps I missed it during my read through, but the threshold to enter Heroic dungeons has been reduced to 435 from 440. That should make it a bit easier to get into Heroics and start earning your Justice points at level cap.


It doesn't really help, since getting into heroics wasn't really the problem I don't think. Getting pre-raid geared was a bigger problem, due to the intense amount of rng involved since your only gearing choice is rng.

If you can't get a drop? Well you need to keep running it over and over -- which you can't even easily do since you can only specific-queue once per day, so you have to rely on a random queue giving you the right dungeon, so maybe you have 2 shots a day.

The LFR ilvl seems to be a more contentious issue than the LFD ilvl, in other words. The crafted pvp set and some questing gear was pretty much enough to queue for heroics before (and still is).

LFR seems to me to be the main issue.
Edited by Mescyn on 10/3/2012 1:04 PM PDT
90 Human Priest
5820


I never had the 450 quest back, I was using a green quest back before I bought this cloak, so yes, it did make the difference.


Ok max level zone green quest rewards are ilevel 437. So that's a 21 point difference (after the hotfix, I might add, not before).

All in all, that piece gave you 1.4 ilevel bump in average.

You're telling me you were sitting 1.4 ilevel points below raid-level gear and this one piece pushed you over the edge?

Even if that were the case, you've basically said that approximately 1,250 JP have been useful to you. After that, it's a completely useless currency.


Everyone is going to be just on the edge of raid gear at some point. Also, JP were useful to me before, when I bought the Klaxxi gloves so I could get the right ilvl to queue for heroics.

I agree that JP really don't do much other than provide some stopgap gear. I'm not sure whether or not this is an intentional design choice.
90 Worgen Hunter
9675
Good read. I always just assume someone comes up with an idea and if it's received well initially, it's implemented, regardless of flaws that are pointed out afterwards.

Employee 1: Hey guys, I had this really great idea: <insert not fully thought out, only marginally creative idea>.
Employee 2: Done. Implemented.
Employee 3: Should we think it through or test it out?
Employee 2: Go for it, but we're still leaving it in regardless.
Community Manager
10/03/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Mescyn
No one seems to have mentioned it in this thread, or perhaps I missed it during my read through, but the threshold to enter Heroic dungeons has been reduced to 435 from 440. That should make it a bit easier to get into Heroics and start earning your Justice points at level cap.


It doesn't really help, since getting into heroics wasn't really the problem I don't think. Getting pre-raid geared was a bigger problem, due to the intense amount of rng involved since your only gearing choice is rng.

If you can't get a drop? Well you need to keep running it over and over -- which you can't even easily do since you can only specific-queue once per day, so you have to rely on a random queue giving you the right dungeon, so maybe you have 2 shots a day.

The LFR ilvl seems to be a more contentious issue than the LFD ilvl, in other words. The crafted pvp set and some questing gear was pretty much enough to queue for heroics before (and still is).

LFR seems to me to be the main issue.


Perhaps I did misunderstand the intention of the thread! I'll do some digging, and see if I can't bring something more useful to the discussion.
90 Orc Warrior
5010
10/03/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Mescyn
If you can't get a drop? Well you need to keep running it over and over -- which you can't even easily do since you can only specific-queue once per day, so you have to rely on a random queue giving you the right dungeon, so maybe you have 2 shots a day.


Gotta have some kinda balance or people would of been 90 and fully heroic geared by the end of the first week. This has also been going on since TBC and in almost every mmo. MMOs and grinds go hand and hand get over it.
90 Worgen Hunter
9675
No one seems to have mentioned it in this thread, or perhaps I missed it during my read through, but the threshold to enter Heroic dungeons has been reduced to 435 from 440. That should make it a bit easier to get into Heroics and start earning your Justice points at level cap.


Not to be completely rude...but what is up with the serious lack of reading comprehension on the part of the CMs as of late? If you're going to cherry pick, at least take the time to read and given a reply that addresses the concern raised in the topic.


Yeah... this response literally said nothing whatsoever about the thread. They could make the heroic requirement ilvl 100 and it wouldn't change the fact that JP gear clearly serves no legitimate purpose.
Edited by Peverell on 10/3/2012 1:08 PM PDT
90 Troll Druid
8840
It seems to me the fundamental problem with MoP's loot system is this incorrect notion that random drops are somehow better and/or more "exciting."

I'll grant you that getting a nice drop is indeed more exciting, but only really up to a point.

I ran the HoT heroics so many times to get pieces for my hunter, for example, and to this day, a couple of them have never dropped. I've run those places dozens, perhaps hundreds of times.

It would have been nice to have those items available from VP and/or JP so that I could upgrade that slot, be at a baseline for the next tier of content, and move on.

With JP/VP gear being sub-par to the content you're running, it doesn't give you that baseline.

let's look at an example:

Firelands loot was islevel 378.

Dragon soul was tuned for people in 378 gear on average.

Using VP and drops, I was almost able to to myself up to that baseline before DS was made available. Lo and behold, I didn't even upgrade every slot. I didn't get all the drops I needed, there were holes in the available VP gear.

Now, the ONLY option to getting to that baseline is through drops.
10/03/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Daxxarri


It doesn't really help, since getting into heroics wasn't really the problem I don't think. Getting pre-raid geared was a bigger problem, due to the intense amount of rng involved since your only gearing choice is rng.

If you can't get a drop? Well you need to keep running it over and over -- which you can't even easily do since you can only specific-queue once per day, so you have to rely on a random queue giving you the right dungeon, so maybe you have 2 shots a day.

The LFR ilvl seems to be a more contentious issue than the LFD ilvl, in other words. The crafted pvp set and some questing gear was pretty much enough to queue for heroics before (and still is).

LFR seems to me to be the main issue.


Perhaps I did misunderstand the intention of the thread! I'll do some digging, and see if I can't bring something more useful to the discussion.


we are already seeing an absurd amount of dungeon bailing because the boss didnt drop or its not the right dungeon.
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12695
I think we need more Justice Point sinks in the game, such as mounts or transmog gear. I'm with OP in that JP gear is practically useless once you're able to queue up for heroics.
90 Troll Druid
8840
Everyone is going to be just on the edge of raid gear at some point. Also, JP were useful to me before, when I bought the Klaxxi gloves so I could get the right ilvl to queue for heroics.

I agree that JP really don't do much other than provide some stopgap gear. I'm not sure whether or not this is an intentional design choice.


Oh, I'm sure it's intentional. I think people disagree with the philosophy behind it though :)

My problem is that JP doesn't fulfill it's stated purpose, to be used as an alternative if you had bad luck with drops. Sub-par gear does not offer an alternative. It at most offers an extremely temporary, less-than-satisfying stop-gap.

It does back to the feeling: JP is a currency obtained primarily through heroic-level content, but it award sub-heroic-level gear. That to me is a problem.

Now, if we were talking about a currency primarily obtainable through scenarios, and nothing else, then I'd be more ok with that currency buying sub-heroic gear.
90 Orc Warrior
5010
10/03/2012 01:09 PMPosted by Sarosha
we are already seeing an absurd amount of dungeon bailing because the boss didnt drop or its not the right dungeon.


Oh like this has never happened before in wow or any other mmo.
85 Night Elf Priest
8645

Perhaps I did misunderstand the intention of the thread! I'll do some digging, and see if I can't bring something more useful to the discussion.


I'm guessing if you ask around at Bliz, people there will just say "We really messed up in beta and we're not really sure what JP is for... just tell them that we'll be making changes next patch"
90 Orc Warrior
5010
10/03/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Fishnchips
It at most offers an extremely temporary, less-than-satisfying stop-gap.


Your running a damn heroic why do you need to feel satisfied or like you accomplished something?
90 Troll Druid
8840


Perhaps I did misunderstand the intention of the thread! I'll do some digging, and see if I can't bring something more useful to the discussion.


That's a worthwhile response, at least.

Pre-emptively, though - if speaking with anyone yields a response along the lines of "Some VP pieces can now be purchased at honored giving you necessary rep to enter LFR." No. Again, the issue is the useless of justice points. I'm already well above the ivl requirement for LFR, but I still have nothing useful to spend JP on.

I've purchased a pair of pants, but as someone said...its just a stopgap. Unless I get lucky in LFR or normal Mogu next week, I still have to constantly run Siege of Nizuao (and I will be dropping each time after the first boss dies). I don't like contributing a problem, but I have no desire to run the remainder of the instance.


In my mind the problem extends to VP as well. It's still a problem of a currency being award primarily from a certain tier of content not awarding loot at that level.

If you buy a VP item, you'll still need to keep running X raid to get your piece and rely on RNG.
90 Human Paladin
7185
We are already seeing an absurd amount of dungeon bailing because the boss didnt drop or its not the right dungeon.
I hate to say it, but I am guilty of this.

Siege of Niuzao Temple, for instance, is a good example. Any time I specific queue for it, I almost always get 1/4 groups because a tank wanted the pants and either didn't get them or did and dropped.

JP items used to be a filler prior to getting in to heroics. As of now, they are little more than settling for an inferior item because RNG is laughing at you.
90 Draenei Shaman
0
10/03/2012 12:51 PMPosted by Daxxarri
No one seems to have mentioned it in this thread, or perhaps I missed it during my read through, but the threshold to enter Heroic dungeons has been reduced to 435 from 440. That should make it a bit easier to get into Heroics and start earning your Justice points at level cap.


You missed the point about Getting Valor points which is significant. The time to get VP is ridiculous, I know you people are trying to make money by making people play longer, but seriously, It's unrealistic how much time someone has to spend just to buy 1 piece of epic.
90 Troll Druid
8840
10/03/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Aluen
It at most offers an extremely temporary, less-than-satisfying stop-gap.


Your running a damn heroic why do you need to feel satisfied or like you accomplished something?


I don't need to feel like I accomplished anything. That argument to could applied to any and all facets of this game.

But I do need to feel somewhat satisfied, otherwise I'm not getting my money's worth from the game and I'll lose interest.

I'd much rather run a heroic a lot over a few weeks, not get my drop, but be able to get a comparable JP piece and move on instead of having to the the heroic indefinitely in order to hopefully get a drop.
90 Orc Warrior
5010
10/03/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Fishnchips
If you buy a VP item, you'll still need to keep running X raid to get your piece and rely on RNG.


This is how we did it in mmos for the past 13 years, RNG is what wow is built around. Also this is the first month of mop don't you think they have to make some kinda of grind at the start to by time as they slowly release content?
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