Holy Paladins Mana Regen Percentages.

90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
I posted this in the Paladin forums earlier [before thinking that this would be a better place for it]

So, as someone who has been a hpally for quite some time, Ive noticed some serious issues regarding the way things like Seal of Insight, and Arcane Torrent are working.

As a Blood Elf, Ive always used Arcane Torrent in my rotation, as pre-5.0.4 it was based on the amount of mana I had in my mana pool, so using a volcanic potion w/ Arcane torrent and Divine plea would significantly bring my mana up, Arcane Torrent giving me back nearly 10k at times. [I was full BiS, so I had a decently sized mana pool, fully buffed]

But now, when I use Arcane torrent, I get a whopping 6k mana. Like....really? Out of 300k total mana, someone at blizzard thought that 6k was 6%? I might have failed math in highschool, but even I know thats not right. Same thing going for Seal of Insight hit chances. Whenever I land a hit that procs the magical '4% mana back' I get a whopping 2500 mana. Again, not being a grand math student, still tells me that 4% of 300k is NOT 2500.

As for Divine plea, I cant say 100% that its not working its full fuction, I dont think it is, but I havent had the time during fights to sit and watch. So I wont get into it.

But the issue I am having now is basically, I know Blizz wanted to make healing harder, and a challenge, but what was the point of increasing my mana pool, when you were just gonna double the costs of my spells anyways? I was gonna assume blizz was going off 'base mana' percentages, but what is base mana anymore? I could take all my armor off or put on my dps gear, and still have 300k mana.

So someone help address me if Im wrong, but at this point in time, I am having mana issues [as I sure everyone else is]. Mana issues that careful CD planning and other mana regen abilities cant even help with. Because things dont seem to work as they should.

Any other pallies noticing the same issues?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10435
Yeah, Arcane Torrent gives %2 mana I think. Which really sucks. I used to use it all the time before. Even Divine plea seems to have been nerfed, but I cant put my finger on it. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I know Arcane Torrent is down.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
yeah, 6k isnt even half of a spell. Im not even sure what to do with that anymore.

Darn :/
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9855
Look on the hotfixes page from a few days ago. They said they nerfed arcane torrent from "an unintended 6%" down to 2%. I'm confused how it was "unintended" for how many years now? Also, seal of insight gives 4% of BASE mana. Base mana for pallies is 60k (check out ret and prot mana pools) but gets buffed by specing holy to 300k. 60,000*.04=2400 so yes, those numbers are correct.
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90 Human Paladin
9960
i thought arcane torrent was always 2% mana back...
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90 Worgen Druid
9545
10/07/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Gríffith
i thought arcane torrent was always 2% mana back...


Was always 6%, was hotfixed to 2% recently.
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90 Troll Druid
9130
10/07/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Gríffith
i thought arcane torrent was always 2% mana back...


Used to be 6% of your entire mana pool but then it was changed to 2% of your base pool.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
10/07/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Veroicone
i thought arcane torrent was always 2% mana back...


Used to be 6% of your entire mana pool but then it was changed to 2% of your base pool.


Its 2% of my current mana pool. Not base mana.

As when I use it, I get 6k mana back. Which is 2% of 300k

Either way, completely !@#$ing useless. lol
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90 Troll Druid
9130


Used to be 6% of your entire mana pool but then it was changed to 2% of your base pool.


Its 2% of my current mana pool. Not base mana.

As when I use it, I get 6k mana back. Which is 2% of 300k

Either way, completely !@#$ing useless. lol


The last hotfix I saw on it listed as base mana.

Edit: Used it on my pally and it's giving her mana back based off her overall pool, even though it has base mana listed.
Edited by Veroicone on 10/7/2012 1:29 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Priest
13930
10/07/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Mianhaeyo
Either way, completely !@#$ing useless. lol


To be fair, that's not a paladin-specific issue, and it's still the best regen racial—better even than the Pandaren.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10855
I too have noticed that if I hit Flash of light or even Divine Light that my Mana suffers...
Its all well and good to say: Use your level 90 talents more, but when a tank Chain pulls or doesn't even use any CD's to help mitigate their damage you will go OoM quite quickly.
its pretty sad when your combat regen is around 8k mp5 and its still not enough to handle all the damage flying around the place..
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7910
so yeah. i know my class and i know my role.

2% mana return from arcane torrent is stupid.

calling it a "fix" to bring it down to its "intended" amount is stupid.

in fact, it's an insult that blizzard feels the need to lie in order to justify the nerf. if they felt it was OP to return an amount of mana that's actually usable, then they should have the guts to say so and stand behind their decision to nerf.

as is, they've lied about what they've done and tried to justify it.

i'm curious what i'm supposed to do with 6k mana. oh, ok i can toss out a hand. or a denounce. or a hoj. or a blinding light. or a holy prism. holy light costs over 7.5k mana. holy shock is almost 10k.

seriously, wtf is this?

a "fix"? all the things broken in the game, and this is near the top of the list of things to fix? a non-issue that's been working as intended for years?

please, have the balls to stand behind your decision and don't lie to your userbase.

also, fix it. 6k mana is useless.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14675
10/07/2012 01:38 PMPosted by Sparklefever
The last hotfix I saw on it listed as base mana.
It's listed as base mana but it's 2% of max mana.
As for Divine plea, I cant say 100% that its not working its full fuction, I dont think it is, but I havent had the time during fights to sit and watch. So I wont get into it.
Divine Plea is working fine.
Same thing going for Seal of Insight hit chances. Whenever I land a hit that procs the magical '4% mana back' I get a whopping 2500 mana. Again, not being a grand math student, still tells me that 4% of 300k is NOT 2500.
Seal of Insight is, and has always been (even when it was Seal of Wisdom), base mana. 4% of 60K mana is exactly 2400 mana.
Any other pallies noticing the same issues?
No. Play better, use your 90 talents more.


wow, rude much?

I was making this forum to help me see if I was just reading things wrong, and to get a better knowledge about the way the spells and such were working. I play just fine, never been bad at that before. Im just looking to see if things were going the same for all hpallys when it came to mana regen, not game play, but thanks.
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90 Human Paladin
10125
I'm noticing huge issues as well.....in dragon soul on heroic if i went oom id just use divine plea and melee something and id easily get 50% mana back b4 divine plea ended...now im lucky if i even get the 12% divine plea says its supposed to give. It even feels like my 10k combat regen isnt working right....as a hpally i shouldnt be at the same mana stretches as a priest lol.
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90 Human Paladin
10125
10/07/2012 06:37 PMPosted by Mianhaeyo
It's listed as base mana but it's 2% of max mana.Divine Plea is working fine.Seal of Insight is, and has always been (even when it was Seal of Wisdom), base mana. 4% of 60K mana is exactly 2400 mana.No. Play better, use your 90 talents more.


wow, rude much?

I was making this forum to help me see if I was just reading things wrong, and to get a better knowledge about the way the spells and such were working. I play just fine, never been bad at that before. Im just looking to see if things were going the same for all hpallys when it came to mana regen, not game play, but thanks.
If what he said was true then i would have got only 400 mana per melee swing in cata.....it is your current specs base mana....to not do that for 1 expans and change with another is retarded for there is no gain to compensate for the extra cost's. Full spirit and gemming spirit on everything and uses cooldowns apropiately there should be no PALLY mana issues.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7445
I think it's a conspiracy of the Royal Apothecary Society to boos sales of Master Mana Potion. With 30k mana, and a 1 minute CD, I kind of imagine being like Piter in Dune popping the spice. It's a bit embarrassing, being a mana pot addict.
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90 Human Paladin
6700
I was experimenting on a 93+ raid dummy to see what my mana regen over a 5 min fight would be and it came out a little over 178,000. I checked out my white hits and I was only landing blows about 50% of the time which reduces the chance for seal of insight to proc the 4% base mana regen. I switch to my ret set in holy spec with insight still up and was doing closer to 300,000 mana returned over the same period.

It would be interesting to see if there was a way to increase our hit chance to proc the seal without reforging or gemming hit/exp stats over necessary healing stats. Just food for thought.
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