Shadowmourne and lore

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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11975
Personally, I never felt that Gorehowl being in Kara meant that it was canonically there. Was more of a... "Look, its a weapon wielded by Grom!" kind of thing.
The Ashbringer IS a good point though, seeing as there was a huge quest for people to acquire it.


Similarly the Quel'delar. Does the PC have the original? It's unlike the Quel'Serrar in the sense that Q'S was a remake, but the Q'D was the original, just with a bit of a fix up with Saronite and The Sunwell.

On the Gorehowl note, is it possible, judging by how completely incoherent the upper reaches of Kara are, that it's merely all timey-wimey?
100 Night Elf Priest
17460
Personally, I never felt that Gorehowl being in Kara meant that it was canonically there. Was more of a... "Look, its a weapon wielded by Grom!" kind of thing.
The Ashbringer IS a good point though, seeing as there was a huge quest for people to acquire it.


Similarly the Quel'delar. Does the PC have the original? It's unlike the Quel'Serrar in the sense that Q'S was a remake, but the Q'D was the original, just with a bit of a fix up with Saronite and The Sunwell.

On the Gorehowl note, is it possible, judging by how completely incoherent the upper reaches of Kara are, that it's merely all timey-wimey?


Wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... Stuff...
100 Human Paladin
19115
10/09/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Vynathlon
Still doesn't prove that Ner'zhul will come back though.


Of course not. It proves the opposite: that Ner'zhul won't come back.

10/09/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Vynathlon
It's been proven with Arthas's light side that entities within the Lich King's mind do not disappear.


The boy in Arthas's dream represented the last vestiges of his humanity. Killing him was symbolism for giving Frostmourne the final piece of his soul.

Matthias Lehner wasn't that same boy. He wasn't Arthas's humanity. He was just a "shadow of the past".

10/09/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Vynathlon
Also provided to us by the dream, it's been proven that the dream is nothing more than that: a dream, therefore Ner'zhul's death within it does not prove that he's gone completely.


A very conscious Lich King said Ner'zhul had been "consumed".

10/09/2012 10:13 PMPosted by Vynathlon
As for the other quote from Blizzard, it proves they don't plan to use him again not that he's gone for good. If Blizzard plans to implement the use of the Lich King by having Bolvar go crazy, then having Ner'zhul resurface again will provide the adequate support for the plot to work.


Metzen said Bolvar is a "new kind of Lich King" and that he wants to move in "new and fresher directions". He's not going to have Bolvar "go crazy" and turn into Arthas v2.
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
10/09/2012 06:08 PMPosted by Vynathlon
I would bet the Deathknight adventurer either gave it to Bolvar or the Ebon Blade.
Ah smart. After the previous lich king ran around with the sister blade of Shadowmourne we create Shadowmourne only to give it over to Bolvar. You know I personally wouldn't be surprised if Bolvar went insane. There are many many things out there which would give him away. For one, it was never announced whether or not Ner'zhul's spirit was destroyed or not, I wouldn't be surprised if it were announced that Arthas was suppressing him and now Bolvar has to deal with him. For another thing, when Arthas took the Helm of Domination he became the Lich King, and as such all the monuments he built weren't about him being Arthas but rather being the Lich King. Now that Bolvar has taken that title it wouldn't be surprising for him to see everything that the Lich King is and take the title of the Lich King instead of Bolvar. I mean seeing all those monuments in place for him imo would send his ego skyrocketing. I wouldn't be surprised if after a few years he tried to take over Arthas's previous position and take over the world again.
Having meta knowledge of possible dangers or not, to Tirion Bolvar is one of the most lawful good characters in humanity, he was not broken by Arthas, he was chosen to be the warden of the Scourge. That would also make him a good candidate (to someone with a lack of the alluded to meta knowledge ) for being a warden over a possibly evil and Scourge affiliated blade.

But that mostly probably depends on what the deathknight adventurer thought about keeping the blade or taking it back to Acherus. I hope we find out.

I would like to see Bolvar not being corrupted, and I would like to see him take on the role of a sort of new Aspect, the Aspect of the Dead, a Hades like figure. I would like to see him come forth to aid in the battle against the Burning Legion when they return.
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
Another reason I can't see Shadowmourne resurface as a plot point is that if some NPC has it... Then there are LOTS of players who will say "No he doesn't. I have it. Why does he have my weapon?"
Perhaps if you own the weapon, it can be referenced. You might get some extra attention, much like Illidan would say "You seem prepared" to players who have his warglaives during WoE.
But you won't see it being used by someone else, for any reason. PLayers own it.
Perhaps, but then there's Gorehowl. Though shadowmourne has much more actual information from the quest and effort in the lore connecting it to your player than simply finding Gorehowl as loot, indeed.

Another reason I can't see Shadowmourne resurface as a plot point is that if some NPC has it... Then there are LOTS of players who will say "No he doesn't. I have it. Why does he have my weapon?"
Perhaps if you own the weapon, it can be referenced. You might get some extra attention, much like Illidan would say "You seem prepared" to players who have his warglaives during WoE.
But you won't see it being used by someone else, for any reason. PLayers own it.
I can say the same thing about Gorehowl and the Corrupted Ashbringer. Why does Darion have my weapon, and likewise why is Garrosh using my weapon as well? It's been proven to work before, Blizzard's just lazy and doesn't want to use anything for it.
Oh, nevermind.
Edited by Elrith on 10/10/2012 12:23 AM PDT
100 Blood Elf Warlock
11975
Metzen said Bolvar is a "new kind of Lich King" and that he wants to move in "new and fresher directions". He's not going to have Bolvar "go crazy" and turn into Arthas v2.


But not having the schizo multiple personalities gnawing at his mind is boring. I'd rather have the Lich King be... like The Morrigan and her two Sisters, Babd and Macha. They are three beings who share a body, The Morrigan being the dominant one more often than not. I feel like it would be more interesting, but guess not.

10/10/2012 12:10 AMPosted by Egrem
A very conscious Lich King said Ner'zhul had been "consumed".


But I wonder, consumed in what sense? That either means "destroyed", or "fused with Arthas entirely to the point there's no awkward personality breaks".
100 Undead Death Knight
Req
14950
10/10/2012 12:20 AMPosted by Elrith
he was not broken by Arthas,
As far as you know of. As far as we know, Bolvar was indeed broken but he knew that he needed the helm in order to take over the Scourge, and having Tirion take over wasn't going to fulfill his goals.

10/10/2012 12:20 AMPosted by Elrith
he was chosen to be the warden of the Scourge.
Chosen by whom? Himself? If anything, Arthas chose him to become his next greatest champion, and after providing him with the adequate training and mental conditioning all he needed from then on was the Helm in order to continue his ambitions. So no, there was no committee in place that chose Bolvar to become the next Lich King, this was just a spur of the moment thing decided by him and Tirion.

10/10/2012 12:20 AMPosted by Elrith
new Aspect, the Aspect of the Dead,
The aspect of Death? Sorry Deathwing already has that title. Unless maybe he could be like an old god of death, since he's not new or anything. Oh sorry that position is also filled by Yogg Saron, whom as far as we know is very much alive. Blizzard really needs to think of different positions that don't involve death in their title, especially considering that the Lich King is pretty much the Lord of the Dead.

Also
10/10/2012 12:20 AMPosted by Elrith
to Tirion Bolvar is one of the most lawful good characters in humanity,
Arthas was like that as well. People change, especially when they're around evil corrupt weapons and have been tortured mentally for days.
100 Night Elf Warrior
7515
I don't even know what to say to these replies. They aren't points of contention, they're basically a bunch of "what if you're wrong though"?

As for the Aspect of Death thing, try not to get hung up on semantics and pay attention to the context. An Aspect traditionally in WOW is a guardian over something. Bolvar is now intended to be a guardian keeping us all safe from the Scourge which he can control with his will.

Try and separate your fixation on Bolvar being corrupt, he is now basically the Aspect of Death. Call it the Aspect of the Scourge, the Aspect of Undeath, it's not an effing literal title I am presenting, it's an effing concept. He is the guardian of a massive army of undead, happy? That has nothing to do with Deathwing or Yog being gods or titled as the Aspect of death, other than superficial semantics. Forgive my terseness, but this is discussion is pointlessly circular.

The corruption of Bolvar? I doubt it's going to happen, I would find it redundant after Arthas and boring, but you don't need to defend the idea to me. All it takes is for Metzen to change his mind, but I doubt it. Because I am looking at this aesthetically and trying to look at it through Metzen's eyes, I may be off, but I think he was telling the truth about wanting to take the Lich King in a new direction.
Edited by Elrith on 10/10/2012 1:53 AM PDT
90 Pandaren Monk
10495
Bolvar got the Tal'Rasha treatment.
100 Night Elf Priest
17460
Another reason I can't see Shadowmourne resurface as a plot point is that if some NPC has it... Then there are LOTS of players who will say "No he doesn't. I have it. Why does he have my weapon?"
Perhaps if you own the weapon, it can be referenced. You might get some extra attention, much like Illidan would say "You seem prepared" to players who have his warglaives during WoE.
But you won't see it being used by someone else, for any reason. PLayers own it.
Perhaps, but then there's Gorehowl. Though shadowmourne has much more actual information from the quest and effort in the lore connecting it to your player than simply finding Gorehowl as loot, indeed.

I can say the same thing about Gorehowl and the Corrupted Ashbringer. Why does Darion have my weapon, and likewise why is Garrosh using my weapon as well? It's been proven to work before, Blizzard's just lazy and doesn't want to use anything for it.
Oh, nevermind.


Well as I said in a post afterwards, Gorehowl for me doesn't feel like you're cannonically getting it, as it was just loot from Kara. A simple "Hey look, Grom's weapon! Isn't that cool?" rather than an actual lore weapon being there.

And as I then said, the Ashbringer part IS a good argument, as it was a weapon you actually had a connection with because you quested for it. Only difference is, its not a legendary, I guess.

I personally don't think we'll see a lore character going around with Shadowmourne, but I can see the distinct possibility Blizz could bring it back in the story, as perhaps the slayer of the Lich King canonically left it in the care of Mograine because he didn't want to be wielding such a powerful runeblade in public (The wielder of Shadowmourne could be a paladin or a warrior after all, not just a Death Knight). Alternatively, the wielder of Shadowmourne could be referenced at some point as being its owner, and if they wield it in public, get notice from NPCs.
100 Dwarf Warrior
18175
10/10/2012 08:20 AMPosted by Resileaf
And as I then said, the Ashbringer part IS a good argument, as it was a weapon you actually had a connection with because you quested for it. Only difference is, its not a legendary, I guess.
That and they only ever implemented the hooks for the Ashbringer; never the questline itself.
59 Undead Death Knight
110

Also
10/10/2012 12:20 AMPosted by Elrith
to Tirion Bolvar is one of the most lawful good characters in humanity,
Arthas was like that as well. People change, especially when they're around evil corrupt weapons and have been tortured mentally for days.


Wouldn't Arthas, the Paladin, be considered Chaotic Good? He would do whatever it took to stop the evil even if it meant him becoming evil himself.
100 Undead Death Knight
Req
14950
10/10/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Deadbanger
Wouldn't Arthas, the Paladin, be considered Chaotic Good? He would do whatever it took to stop the evil even if it meant him becoming evil himself.
I suppose so but my point was more being about him being good not lawful good.
90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
Canonically, the assault on Naxxramas where you'd get the Corrupted Ashbringer included Darion, so he was the one who looted it I guess.
100 Pandaren Monk
8450
If you read the book arthast, you find out he kills ner'zhul shortly after he becomes the lich king.
90 Human Warrior
13525
If you read the book arthast, you find out he kills ner'zhul shortly after he becomes the lich king.


WHY!!?!?!?
100 Draenei Death Knight
12555
Well this thread was necroed but.

There's a problem in that the player has it.

But what you could do is have a special quest for people who have Shaowmourne. You have to talk to Morgraine, he said the blade is needed but to throw people off he gives you a replica a green item {Shadowmourne replica} it does one damage but you can transmog it and it gives you the soul proc effect to look cool. That way the npcs characters have it so it can be used for lore, the players can transmog "it" and it doesn't look silly when a character is wielding frostmourne and players are too. Everyone wins!
42 Human Hunter
3090
Well this thread was necroed but.

There's a problem in that the player has it.

But what you could do is have a special quest for people who have Shaowmourne. You have to talk to Morgraine, he said the blade is needed but to throw people off he gives you a replica a green item {Shadowmourne replica} it does one damage but you can transmog it and it gives you the soul proc effect to look cool. That way the npcs characters have it so it can be used for lore, the players can transmog "it" and it doesn't look silly when a character is wielding frostmourne and players are too. Everyone wins!


Or it could be done like the other Legendary or Noteworthy weapons and just have people find and have it. Ignoring that a player did a quest or effort to obtain said weapon.
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