So this has been a stampede BUG all along

90 Human Hunter
3465
Rank 1 hunter Tosan has been saying in his livestream that a stampede bug is the reason for insane hunter burst, but this post that a blue responded to is the first I've seen that ID's this specific issue:

"if you reach a certain amount of attack power your stampede pets go from 7k style crits to 50k.bm hunter can litteraly kill a whole team in seconds."

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5616002330

Looking at the video in that thread of stampede killing an entire 3s team in seconds and comparing it to this video of non-bugged stampede taking about half of a pally's health bar over 20 seconds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tiemjcx0zkw&feature=plcp

And it seems very obvious that a bug of some sorts is at work here.

This screenshot confirms that a bug is at work- the spampeding pets' basic attacks are all critting for 42k here at once.

http://goo.gl/yvvvc

That's obviously not by design since each stampeding pet is supposed to do 1/5 normal pet damage, and we all know that a hunter pet's basic attack doesn't crit for 200k. A bug is obviously at work here and it is breaking the game and causing hunters to take a lot of heat.

Might be a good idea to fix it, and reset the arena ladders and MMR at the same time because this bug has decided countless arena games by now.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/11/2012 7:09 AM PDT
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90 Undead Mage
5430
LOL, good catch

I bet whoever noticed that first has been having a blast in RBG's and Arena's
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90 Human Hunter
3465
Wait a minute, I just read the stampede tooltip and it now says that each stampeding pet is SUPPOSED to do "175%" normal damage:

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=121818

Am I imagining that the tooltip used to read that each pet does 1/5 normal damage?

Regardless, having each of 5 summoned BM pets do 175% normal damage for 20 seconds is insane. BM pets normally do close to half of a hunter's total damage. So if you have 5 of them doing 175% of that already high pet damage for 20 seconds then that might be a problem.

This is the issue that needs to be focused on.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/11/2012 7:32 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
10715
You are not imagining the old tooltip. That is just ridiculous. How did THAT slip through the cracks as either a good idea or a bug??
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14925
10/11/2012 07:36 AMPosted by Durendall
You are not imagining the old tooltip. That is just ridiculous. How did THAT slip through the cracks as either a good idea or a bug??


Because in its original incarnation, Stampede was on a 10 minute cooldown, lasted for 10 seconds, and was unusable in arena. It needed to hit like a truck to be worth using in PvE, because it was not originally allowed in ranked PvP. Several Hunters, PvP- and PvE-focused alike, complained that their level 87, class defining ability would be either completely or intermittently unavailable. So we got the 5 minute cooldown, 25% pet damage, not reset by Readiness version on live.
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90 Human Hunter
3465
10/11/2012 07:49 AMPosted by Adarant
So we got the 5 minute cooldown, 25% pet damage, not reset by Readiness version on live.


Read the tooltip. It says 175%, not 25%.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=121818

Stampede

Summons all of your pets to fight your current target for 20 sec. Your pets deal 175% of their normal damage while summoned this way.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/11/2012 7:56 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14925
So we got the 5 minute cooldown, 25% pet damage, not reset by Readiness version on live.


Read the tooltip. It says 175%, not 25%.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=121818


What does your in-game tooltip state? Wowhead has been known to be inaccurate at times.

Edit: To be clear, everything I have seen points to the stupid OP BM damage being due to a bug. This could likely be it. My point is, though, that the damage should be 25% per pet, so Stampede's is equivalent to having an extra pet fight for you for 20 seconds. It was originally 175%, because it needed to be.
Edited by Adarant on 10/11/2012 8:08 AM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
3465


What does your in-game tooltip state?


I'm at work (goofing off online ftw) so can't check, but someone on the hunter board said his tooltip ingame says 25%.

But the wowhead tooltip was datamined from somewhere- maybe the "real" damage value given to pets by the Blizzard servers is looking at the same place that wowhead is.

The screenshots of stampeding pets critting for 43k at once suggests that this is the case. That obviously isn't 25% of normal damage.

But regardless of the reason, I think we can safely zero into stampede as being the main issue here.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/11/2012 8:27 AM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
11620
Nobody believed any of us when we said there was a bug with AP scaling. :<

I'm sure a large knee jerk nerf is still in store though.

The tooltip does say 25% in game, but there's no buff on your bars (is there? I don't really pay attention to that) that might show up differently.
Edited by Stalked on 10/11/2012 8:30 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
14895
I also noticed a very large increase in our Hunter's damage on Elegon (he's Beast Mastery.) Basically going from good DPS to "what the living f***?"

This would also explain the pets blowing people up. Stampede was not potent enough even when fully geared on the beta, to do that kind of damage unless it was to Elegon with the +50% damage aura. 25% NORMAL PET DAMAGE is kinda small. If they're hitting that hard on players and the difference is so large between now and then, then there's obviously a bug somewhere.

Oh, hai. This is Bullet. Had to reroll for MoP >.>
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90 Human Hunter
3465
Ghostcrawler is previewing Stampede nerfs on Twitter:

We think Stampede is ok, as long as it's not with Lynx Rush, Rabid and BRP.

The Stampede heal is dumb. Other pet abilities are chilled out during Stampede.

https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler

So they will apparently make stampede unusable with lynx rush, rabid and "BRP." Someone remind me what BRP is.

And they will take away stampede spirit mend heals.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/11/2012 8:50 AM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
14895
BRP = Big Red Pet
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90 Human Hunter
3465
10/11/2012 08:52 AMPosted by Necessities
BRP = Big Red Pet


Ok, well now we're getting somewhere. I've been saying for months stampede and bestial wrath shouldn't be usable at the same time, and they are adding lynx rush and rabid.

We'll see how much the stampede pets are hitting for in complete isolation from any other bm burst cd.

Considering that one AOE cc will help negate the cd, that may be enough- wait and see.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/11/2012 9:00 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Hunter
15525
Nobody believed any of us when we said there was a bug with AP scaling. :<

I'm sure a large knee jerk nerf is still in store though.

The tooltip does say 25% in game, but there's no buff on your bars (is there? I don't really pay attention to that) that might show up differently.


There is NO bug with the AP scaling. Stampede is just currently not applying the damage reduction to the called pets, so they are attacking for 100% damage instead of 20%.

It's a little sad that even with this sizable dps buff, hunters are only slightly above average at singe-target dps. It's going to be fixed and then we get to languish as the worse pure dps (again) and warm the bench for hardmodes like we did for early DS.
Edited by Neruse on 10/11/2012 9:32 AM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
11620
10/11/2012 09:22 AMPosted by Neruse
There is NO bug with the AP scaling. Stampede is just currently not applying the damage reduction to the called pets, so they are attacking for 100% damage instead of 20%.

Maybe it's not the AP scaling, but there's a point at which stampede's damage goes from not so bad, to wtf-worthy.

It's happening when people pop all their cooldowns, something's clearly going on. :/
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90 Worgen Hunter
15525
There is NO bug with the AP scaling. Stampede is just currently not applying the damage reduction to the called pets, so they are attacking for 100% damage instead of 20%.

Maybe it's not the AP scaling, but there's a point at which stampede's damage goes from not so bad, to wtf-worthy.

It's happening when people pop all their cooldowns, something's clearly going on. :/


There's nothing out of the usual cooldown stacking going on. Rabid + 3200 RF pvp power + >50 focus means pet attacks hit for 2.4x the base damage. Then add on-use AGI trinket right before summoning Stampede. The only thing Stampede pets don't get is the BW bonus.
Edited by Neruse on 10/11/2012 9:46 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Hunter
15525
Stampede's back to 20% per pet after restart.
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90 Undead Warlock
6835
I don't think anything is bugged, it's just that hunters have several damage cooldowns they can use.

As a warlock, I have dark soul and a trinket. From personal experience, I love dark soul, it's pretty powerful. It can be dispelled though, which sucks.
Warriors have recklessness, avatar, skull banner, and trinket. Also dragon roar if they choose it. This is destroying people.
Hunters have lynx rush, BW, stampede, rapid fire, rapid fire PVP bonus, rabid, and a trinket. This is making people disappear.

The thing about cooldowns is that they make other cooldowns even better, and can be good on their own (some exceptions, like skull banner's crit damage without recklessness crit bonus).
Edited by Facespace on 10/11/2012 1:21 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
I also noticed a very large increase in our Hunter's damage on Elegon (he's Beast Mastery.) Basically going from good DPS to "what the living f***?"

This would also explain the pets blowing people up. Stampede was not potent enough even when fully geared on the beta, to do that kind of damage unless it was to Elegon with the +50% damage aura. 25% NORMAL PET DAMAGE is kinda small. If they're hitting that hard on players and the difference is so large between now and then, then there's obviously a bug somewhere.

Oh, hai. This is Bullet. Had to reroll for MoP >.>


And so you picked dps shaman. Why did you reroll???
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