The Great Ironpaw Token Shortage

90 Draenei Shaman
13860
By now most of you are getting ready to start your first raid of the expansion, if you haven't already. Most of the focus has been on hitting 90 and getting your heroic gear, but now you're starting to turn your attention to consumables, and therein lies the problem.

The level 600 food from each Cooking Way gives you 300 of a stat. The largest feasts available give you 275, as does the level 550 individual food. You'll want your own 300 stat food for raiding, right?

Well, not all is simple. Each dish requires an ingredient that can only be purchased using Ironpaw Tokens http://www.wowhead.com/currency=402, and you can only get 7 of these a week via dailies. Any extras you need must be obtained via Replenishing the Pantry http://www.wowhead.com/quest=31535 which requires 20 fish/meat or 100 vegetables for each token. As you'll need your farm to produce as many veggies as possible for cooking, you need to go farming!

But here's the problem. At 5 food produced per token purchase, someone like me who raids 3 nights a week, for 4 hours each night, and could potentially wipe up to 8 times each hour, I'll need another 13 tokens to simply keep up with my raiding requirements. I'll need to spend more time farming if I want to purchase the vanity items.

How much time though? Well, assuming a rate of 5 fish every minute, I'll need to spend 61 minutes farming. That's 8.5% of my raiding week to obtain one of the ingredients. The 300 stat food also requires 5 of two different fish/meat, and 25 of a vegetable, which requires even more farming.

The vegetables are another bottleneck. On a normal day you'll only produce 80, so that means 560 per week minimum. Using myself as an example again, I'll need 480 vegetables per week. If you raid longer than I do you'll be short each week. This means farming more fish/meat to get more tokens to buy 25 veggies per token (each ingredient purchased with a token is 1/4th of the amount required to buy the token in the first place).

At this stage, guilds will either need to take the more practical approach of using feasts which have 1/5th the ingredient requirements, or force raiders to spend many extra hours farming ingredients or levelling alts to have multiple farms growing at the same time.

Ideally, we need more tokens from dailies and possibly doubling the fish/meat/veggies purchasable with tokens.

Originally posted here: http://www.totemspot.com/vb/entry.php?b=59
Edited by Askledarea on 10/2/2012 4:53 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
aus
18475
Yea while I knew it from seeing the mats rise on beta I had not done a lot of cooking post nerf and I was distinctly unhappy when I did the maths.

My advice to to the guild was the drop a feast for every attempt is no longer practical, that we should request that players use their own food be it 200 stat vendor food, 250 or 300 and drop feasts for kill attempts.

I was thinking more along the lines of making tiller dailies give an ironpaw token.
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90 Worgen Hunter
14315
You can buy buff food off a vendor 2g for 5.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Night Elf Druid
11830
Most of the guilds that I know, including mine, are opting for making their individual raiders farm individual food for the raids. However, it also puts a strain on the guild leader and officers having to organize and manage our 30 raiders (in our 25-man raiding guild) to make enough food for themselves plus some extra to keep the guild banks stocked for people who didn't have the time or resources to farm up their own. It's already put a huge strain on my 25-man guild with having to get everything organized, and a lot of my raiders really aren't enjoying the farming process and amount of materials that are required for getting food for raids.

Food for raiding used to be something fast that we could just have one officer deal with making feasts. Now, we have to coordinate 30 peoples' individual cooking and the fact that the materials needed are really unrealistic for a guild to sustain across the course of the whole expansion.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Night Elf Druid
11830
10/02/2012 04:39 PMPosted by Positivity
You can buy buff food off a vendor 2g for 5.


The best buff food I've seen gives you +200 stats from vendors. The food that we need to make for raiding is +300 food. Any stat difference ends up being meaningful when you are working on learning encounters, even for pretty casual guilds.

If they made the feasts/banquests give the same level as the individual foods for everyone, then it would take a lot of the organizational burden off the raids to force their members to have individual foods. One of the reasons why feasts & cauldrons were made was to reduce the burden on organizing this kind of stuff for guilds.
Edited by Lissanna on 10/2/2012 4:55 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Mage
13540
Some things to keep in mind:
-The token ingredients are not BoP. People *will* farm them to sell.
-Wildfowl breast has a 100% drop rate from many birds, some of which can be burst down in a few globals at 90. 20 wildfowl breasts = 1 token. Until people figure this out, you can buy them cheap on the AH. I've been making money hand over fist buying wildfowl breasts, converting them to carrots, and selling them on the AH at 200g/5.
-It may be worth using food only when you just need an extra boost. It's wasted on farm content, and it's wasted when you're still learning mechanics.
-What the hell is wrong with the other members of your raid? Why are you the only one taking the few minutes per day to do the token daily? 10 players * 7 = 70 tokens per week.
Edited by Keeblik on 10/2/2012 4:50 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Mage
13540
10/02/2012 04:48 PMPosted by Lissanna
The best buff food I've seen gives you +200 stats from vendors.


Specifically, secondary stats.
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90 Draenei Shaman
13860
Some things to keep in mind:
-The token ingredients are not BoP. People *will* farm them to sell.
-Wildfowl breast has a 100% drop rate from many birds, some of which can be burst down in a few globals at 90. 20 wildfowl breasts = 1 token. Until people figure this out, you can buy them cheap on the AH. I've been making money hand over fist buying wildfowl breasts, converting them to carrots, and selling them on the AH at 200g/5.
-It may be worth using food only when you just need an extra boost. It's wasted on farm content, and it's wasted when you're still learning mechanics.
-What the hell is wrong with the other members of your raid? Why are you the only one taking the few minutes per day to do the token daily? 10 players * 7 = 70 tokens per week.

Everything mentioned here is for a single player only, so multiply requirements by 10 for a 10 man raid
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90 Human Paladin
11880
/agree with everything in the OP.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Night Elf Druid
11830
Some things to keep in mind:
-The token ingredients are not BoP. People *will* farm them to sell.
-Wildfowl breast has a 100% drop rate from many birds, some of which can be burst down in a few globals at 90. 20 wildfowl breasts = 1 token. Until people figure this out, you can buy them cheap on the AH. I've been making money hand over fist buying wildfowl breasts, converting them to carrots, and selling them on the AH at 200g/5.
-It may be worth using food only when you just need an extra boost. It's wasted on farm content, and it's wasted when you're still learning mechanics.
-What the hell is wrong with the other members of your raid? Why are you the only one taking the few minutes per day to do the token daily? 10 players * 7 = 70 tokens per week.

Everything mentioned here is for a single player only, so multiply requirements by 10 for a 10 man raid


and by 25 for a 25-man raid.

I don't mind farming. I don't mind having to work as a guild to get the materials we need. I mind that the burden is too great for the resources of the average guild of either size to realistically handle.

The problem of my guild's officers trying to organize all this food for my 25-man raiding guild has turned a fun farming mini-game into a huge nightmare.
Edited by Lissanna on 10/2/2012 4:59 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
12285
If Blizzard wanted to fix this problem rather easily, the designers could simply make the banquet stat buff equal to the individual stat buff. Players could still choose their most beneficial Way to level for their personal use, but the banquets would then be equally as useful for their entire raid group.

I don't mind farming mobs for meat or even fishing, well, for fish. What I don't like is being forced into FarmVille in WoW. What was promised as a choice is actually no choice at all, given the way Ironpaw Tokens currently are awarded.

Also this:

I don't mind farming. I don't mind having to work as a guild to get the materials we need. I mind that the burden is too great for the resources of the average guild of either size to realistically handle.

The problem of my guild's officers trying to organize all this food for my 25-man raiding guild has turned a fun farming mini-game into a huge nightmare.
Edited by Pinkiepìe on 10/2/2012 5:07 PM PDT
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90 Goblin Mage
13540
Oh, you're talking about the +300 food. Don't bother. The extra 0.2% DPS will almost never make a difference. The option's there for OCD types, but it's a waste of time.
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90 Worgen Warrior
11265
Those 25 stat points are going to carry you through the night? Feasts some plenty adequate. Yes, I know that word is the problem in that it means normal when we have people wanting themselves to be special. It seems optional activities are painted as mandatory because people want things their own particular way. Die less, you won't need as much food. "But I need the food to learn!" you say. If 300 stat isn't good enough to keep you alive, I doubt 275 is going to stop the world in its tracks.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Night Elf Druid
11830
10/02/2012 05:55 PMPosted by Keeblik
Oh, you're talking about the +300 food. Don't bother. The extra 0.2% DPS will almost never make a difference. The option's there for OCD types, but it's a waste of time.

The players in this game have shown a long history of doing things that seemed like a waste of time, but gave any advantage. Expecting people not to use the best stat food is just silly given the number of things people have done to get any advantage at all over the years.

For one person's food, that extra stats may not seem like a lot, but keep in mind that the stats are doubled on pandaren with their racial. In addition, a small DPS bonus, along with more health for the tanks and more regen for the healers absolutely matters when a lot of the time, wipes can still happen when the boss is at 2% health or less. In a 25-man raid guild, using the lower stat food versus the higher stat food could actually be the difference between wiping or killing a boss. If those extra stats didn't matter, then we shouldn't have that food at all.

They really need to make the maximum individual food the same stat value as the maximum feast food, so that the max ilevel individual foods weren't mandatory for raiding groups.
Edited by Lissanna on 10/2/2012 7:20 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13455
Would having the 300 stat food buff persist through death help?
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90 Human Warrior
12155
Oh, you're talking about the +300 food. Don't bother. The extra 0.2% DPS will almost never make a difference. The option's there for OCD types, but it's a waste of time.


^ says the extra 0.2% DPS increase won't make a difference. Hasn't cleared any difficult or semi-challenging content in previous expansions. Please tell us more about how you know what you're talking about
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14305

-Wildfowl breast has a 100% drop rate from many birds, some of which can be burst down in a few globals at 90. 20 wildfowl breasts = 1 token. Until people figure this out, you can buy them cheap on the AH. I've been making money hand over fist buying wildfowl breasts, converting them to carrots, and selling them on the AH at 200g/5.


This has already been hotfixed (the drop rate is no longer 100%).
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1 Human Rogue
0
Why are the guild and raid officers responsible for anything extra, besides their own consumables? If Johnny Mage or Stabby McRogue don't bring their own food, and it results in them under performing, it's their loss when they get replaced for someone who will bring their own whatever.
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90 Orc Shaman
7735
You won't have to farm. Just pay. Now that you know what is involved, you will be willing to pay good money for this food, right? where there is a demand and good money to be made people will fill the void.

Put the word out that you will pay good money for stacks of fish and wildfowl breast. You'll get it.
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90 Goblin Mage
13540
10/02/2012 07:18 PMPosted by Lissanna
In addition, a small DPS bonus, along with more health for the tanks and more regen for the healers absolutely matters when a lot of the time, wipes can still happen when the boss is at 2% health or less. In a 25-man raid guild, using the lower stat food versus the higher stat food could actually be the difference between wiping or killing a boss


A 0.2% increase to each person's DPS is a 0.2% increase to the raid DPS. I've seen wipes at 2% or less. But 0.2% isn't 2%. It's a tenth of 2%. 0.2% of a boss's health is one second on an eight-minute enrage timer. And sure, we all have our stories about that one time where the paladin bubbled after everyone else died and killed the boss a second before the bubble ran out. And in situations like those, taking 0.2% off everyone's primary stats might have turned it into a wipe. But those stories are memorable because they're so exceedingly improbable. As I said, it almost never makes a difference.

Situations where that small a buff turns a wipe into a kill are rare enough that you'd have to spend many, many man-hours farming for each wipe prevented.
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