So mage 90 talents...

MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
IW is definitely the most forgiving, least disruptive talent. Worst case, you get a 6% passive buff, never use the active, and you're about 2-3% lower than the balance point. Any situation with reasonably predictable damage, and you do better than that, with a wee bit of extra survivability to boot.

The other two talents tie you down more and require significant maintenance, and players will be able to use them to get more out of them than IW in many situations, but with IW, you'll never be too far off the mark.
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74 Worgen Warlock
7065
10/03/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Deacar
So basically they gimped mage dps on purpose? Nice. Good to know. That's even better than being balanced.

Only a mage could be playing a top tier class and still insist Blizzard is "gimping" them.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11160
Dammit, people, whether or not mages are balanced around 100% uptime on the 90 talents is irrelevant. Any mage that wants to maximize their performance will be trying as hard as they can to make sure they DO have 100% uptime.

The way the mage 90 talents work requires that mage damage be reduced OVERALL to account for the fact that we suddenly get major damage boosters at that level.

So without using the talents we'd be at, say, 90% effectiveness. Keeping them up 90% of the time or whatever it's balanced around will bring us back to 100% effectiveness. Problem is, keeping them up is a huge pain and one of the least fun things I've ever been forced to do as a mage. It's like if rogues had to channel for five seconds to refresh slice and dice.

So yeah, some classes don't get mind-blowing level 90 talents. Some of them are kind of meh. But at the same time, they don't require your overall damage to be lowered just because they're there.

We'd honestly just be better off if they completely REMOVED the level 90 talents and rebalanced our damage to be in a suitable place with them gone. That is why they are bad. Not because they need to be improved, but because we'd actually be better off WITHOUT them.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
10035
Invocation - 40 second tedious damage buff with 6 second cast time

Rune of Power - 1 minute immobile damage buff with 1.5 second cast time and no display for remaining time on the runes

Incanter's Ward - Small base damage increase. Small shield with crapshoot unreliable damage boosts.

sigh...


We've been saying this all of beta, it's the reason I switched to a lock. Haven't regretted it one bit.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
11540
10/03/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Bándet
Everyones 90 talents suck.


Lets see with WW Monks

Invoke Xuen - A DPS CD that had to have other uses forced into it to make it appealing to the other specs, should be baseline for WW that has no other serious CD's (EB is pathetic for being our only CD)

Rushing Jade Wind - A short CD used to buff burst AoE. Costs us our only single target burst CD. Extremely situational.

Chi Torpedo - Useless as it requires the monk to run away from the target losing tiger strikes and white damage that make up ~30% of our damage and again costs us our only DPS CD.

We get one choice out of the tier. At least the framework for good talents exist for mages, hunters, and locks. For WW and arguably BrM, these talents are terrible to their core.
Edited by Kallik on 10/5/2012 12:21 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Mage
16945
These talents don't feel like awesome new abilities, they feel like "Which of these talents makes me feel the least angry/screwed over?'.

But then, that feedback was given all beta long and blizz never paid attention to it then either.
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
10/03/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Bándet
Everyones 90 talents suck.


I like mine.....well Stormbolt is kind of boring, but the other two are pretty sweet.
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90 Troll Hunter
12505
Glaive Toss - Arcane Shot 1.2
Power Shot - Can be dodged by strafing
Barrage - Multi-Shot 1.2
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90 Undead Mage
5350
Your just going to get alot of people saying 'all lvl 90 talents suck' with this type of thread.

I think that Invocation and Rune will be re-worked.

They could easily fix Invocation and Rune by making them instant cast. Invocation should return mana over time like a hot, but be casted instantly off the global cd. Same for Rune, 2 limit, instant cast, off the global cd.

I think that would fix us quite a bit. I haven't done alot of raiding though, just about to start (need like 4 more heroic pieces), but from the fights Ive seen in dungeons, the two talents are moot untill they are instant cast. I dont mind keeping a certain buff active to be 'competitive'.

Im really disappointed so many things have cast times, not just our level 90 talents. Look at the armors for instance, nerfed into the ground pvp wise because of cast time. All the unique things that seperated a good mage from a bad mage in pvp (and in pve to an extent) are gone.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9845
I would like to see Rune put a stacking buff on you, that depletes if you leave the RoP.

I've seen someone suggest Invocation stack a similar buff on you depending how long you channel it.

I'd love to see Activision Blizzard do some quality of life changes to these talents, but until than, I'm gonna level my El Sham. I found that the Mage class just doesn't feel as fun as it used to once I hit 90.
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90 Undead Mage
5350
in my guild we have discussed something similar to that velistova, our conclusion:

it would be nice to see the buffs themselves slightly differently, like how you recommend, but the easiest fix to both talents would just be instant cast/cd based
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
in my guild we have discussed something similar to that velistova, our conclusion:

it would be nice to see the buffs themselves slightly differently, like how you recommend, but the easiest fix to both talents would just be instant cast/cd based


That has a couple of very significant effects, though.

First, one of the whole points of these talents is to increase the difference between the damage Mages do when they need to move and the damage they can do when stationary. They're designed to limit mobile damage. The changes you suggest would greatly reduce that effect.

Second, your proposed Invocation design would result in 100% uptime. This would mean the damage buff would have to be reduced from 25% to something like 8-9%, eliminating the effect that good usage of these talents has on burst windows (see my post unthread that explains how that works).

The result is a talent that, sure, is easier to use — but no longer provides any but the most basic part of the benefit the current version does, and no longer serves to limit mobile damage.
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90 Gnome Mage
9665
Would my suggestion for a stacking RoP buff that falls off outside of the circle be OP?

Would a stacking buff from Invocation depending on channel time be OP?

If they would severely imbalance Mages, would a theorycrafter let me know so I wont keep reposting these suggestions.
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90 Undead Mage
5350
Oh I agree Lhiv, the current form of the spells would need to be changed significantly to make 100 percent uptime impossible (for rop for instance), or make 100 percent uptime not give that good effect (invocation for instance).

I have yet to meet a mage on the KJ server (top raiding guilds included) that have yet to complain about how tiresome invocation/rop are. Invocation is terribly designed, no mage will have fun casting a channeling spell for 4+ seconds every single minute (it may give us a buff, but during the casting and the first 2 seconds after the cast, we are doing no damage, its not fun to do no damage for roughly 10 seconds a minute, just to keep up a buff). In a large fight (lets say avg boss fight in raids is 8 minutes, that means we could realistically be channelling a spell for 1/8th of the fight, a full minute out of an 8 minute fight. Its also not cool to have to begin every pull with invocation already used, just to have the buff. I honestly dont see how mages can say 'i have fun casting evocation every 30 seconds'.

As for RoP, i dont know what could be done about it, but again, i have yet to see a mage not say 'why does this have a cast time'. Its one of the few buffs/dps increases in the game, that requires constant recasting, has no timer, and because of boss mechanics, you get to stand in it for maybe 50 percent of the time its on the floor. The spell is designed in a way that the only 'skill' difference in using RoP between a good mage and a bad mage is 'pre ROP placement'. Our level talents do not differentiate between good and bad players at the moment. That is a fundamental design issue in my point of view, regardless of the QQ i have about cast times. At least make the spells work in a way that a good mage will get more out of it than a bad mage. Currently I can't see how a good mage can use either of these 2 spells better than a bad mage, even if it has a cast time.

I for one have been testing arcane (i have also only met like 3 arcane mages on KJ because people hate the mechanic of invocation so much), and to tell ya, arcane is just straight up headache worthy. The rotation is pretty !@#$, and you have to litterally cast invocation every 30 seconds in pre-tier gear to keep up a good dps.

How is that fun? I dont care about balanced, i care about why mages have to fight so many game designs to be good/have fun
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90 Human Paladin
8730
Anticipation: Fixes a flaw every rogue spec currently has. Only real choice for PVE. Baseline for Pallys.

Versatility: Fixes a flaw every Rogue spec has, something that should probably be baseline. Ynly choice for heavy heavy target switching. Terribly boring talent.

Shuriken Toss: Only ranged Option a Rogue has. Does almost no damage. Only real choice for PVP.

WILL TRADE!


Actually

Anticipation: Baseline for pallys, but the talented rogue version is better.

Versatility: Baseline for pallys, but the pally version is better.

Shuriken Toss: Basline for pallys.. ( Judgment, does craptastic damage, but builds CP but the pally version has a 6 sec CD instead of an energy cost, I will estimate that the holy damage is better over all. They can both proc your weapon buff IE: poison, or Seals )
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27 Night Elf Druid
16875
level 90 mage talents are clunky and not logical.folks tryng to rationalize it are wrong,plain and simple, or just mage haters.mages everywhere are complaing.i cant stand playing my mage with these talents.i do anyways, raids have been interesting but not in a good way.i really hope this gets looked into or mages get a buff so they are not balanced around having these talents with 100% uptime, which isnt even possible in modern warcrafts dynamic, high movemnet encounters.
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90 Pandaren Mage
10520
The only problem with RoP is that if you cannot see the visual you have no idea what the duration on the rune is. If you strive to do well you MUST use outside addons to track the duration.

I was forced to write my own addon that tells me the rune duration because after raiding this week I could barely keep track of the rune when the 24 other people in my raid were all stacked with me. There is an exorbitant amount of ground clutter in a 25m raid, and with an essential buff for a mage to maintain, it is incredibly frustrating trying to deal with high uptimes on fights that call for stacking up. Same goes for tracking arcane charges, but that's a topic for another thread.
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
It would definitely be good if the buff indicated the time remaining on the rune you're currently standing on.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
I think the level 90 mage talents are pretty annoying. I thought the devs were striving to remove unnecessarily clunky mechanics, not add more.
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90 Draenei Mage
13780
10/05/2012 03:15 PMPosted by Kaikou
I think the level 90 mage talents are pretty annoying. I thought the devs were striving to remove unnecessarily clunky mechanics, not add more.
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