Men v. Women - How socialization affects RP

Volkuza, thank you for your contribution, I feel like I am much more knowledgeable about troll society now.

What is interesting to me is that there are many examples of non-traditional women, but few really non-traditional male examples.

Can anyone come up with a few?


Oh man, I'd have to go through piles of quest text to find a male Troll that didn't fit the stereotype of crazy powerhungry witch doctor, aspiring warrior, or grand warlord.


Zen'kikki.

Only half-kidding.
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90 Troll Warlock
12330


Oh man, I'd have to go through piles of quest text to find a male Troll that didn't fit the stereotype of crazy powerhungry witch doctor, aspiring warrior, or grand warlord.


Zen'kikki.

Only half-kidding.


An aspiring Druid who seeks to fix the destruction of the Plaguelands isn't exactly something that goes against the links provided in the OP.
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85 Draenei Warrior
4880


Zen'kikki.

Only half-kidding.


An aspiring Druid who seeks to fix the destruction of the Plaguelands isn't exactly something that goes against the links provided in the OP.


Depends on his motives and personality.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14595
Varian and Garrosh are both knuckle dragging hypermasculine idiots to the point of being hyperbole.

Which is a shame because Garrosh was a dejected wimp in Outland and had the chance to go through some interesting character changes. But Blizzard is about as subtle as a sledgehammer and just made him into a chestbeating warmonger between patches.
Edited by Lellex on 10/3/2012 6:30 PM PDT
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10/03/2012 04:33 PMPosted by Ferenold
Arathor: Arathor is the first of the human nations, and hence is likely to have a tie to tradition as the other nation-states break off. Thus things like gender mores will not be quite as malleable.


Gotta define which culture's views on women there, since the old and traditional gender dynamics could be very different at certain times and places.
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10/03/2012 08:04 PMPosted by Everen
Arathor: Arathor is the first of the human nations, and hence is likely to have a tie to tradition as the other nation-states break off. Thus things like gender mores will not be quite as malleable.


Gotta define which culture's views on women there, since the old and traditional gender dynamics could be very different at certain times and places.


That's certainly true.
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10/03/2012 03:24 PMPosted by Systar
Give an example of a lore character that is contrary to stereotypical gender role.

Jaina Proudmoore

10/03/2012 03:24 PMPosted by Systar
Give an example of a lore character that falls into a stereotypical gender role.

Jaina Proudmoore

She's both. She's not your stereotypical woman-in-distress, but she is your stereotypical smart, strong-willed woman protagonist.

I swear, I can practically hear cries of "You go girl!" coming from her head anytime she does ANYTHING.

Yes, I really do hate Jaina. A lot.
Edited by Palanar on 10/3/2012 8:22 PM PDT
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87 Human Warrior
7820
don't get hung up on "playing the opposite gender believably". characters will still be individuals, nobody is seriously gong to say "hey whoa your dude here is entirely too nurturing, come back when you can write a man"

socialization is a prototype, not a mold
Edited by Lito on 10/3/2012 8:29 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6425
How do you think our society and the socialization pertaining to gender is different from the races in Azeroth? How do you think they are similar?

How we differ:
Our society won't bat an eyelash at those who still adhere to gender roles, because they have been established for so long. Additionally, with how recent the Women's Rights Movement was, our society actually praises those who break out of the gender roles.

Such praise would be given to women who are independent, who are assertive, who are forthright (as opposed to sneaky and catty), who are confident with their appearance without requiring approval with others, and who seize opportunities to become powerful people.

I imagine if women in Azeroth (especially orcs, trolls, night elves, and dwarves) possessed our society's gender role attributes, they would be considered weak. Azeroth seems to be a world of gender equality because of the presence of strong female leaders, as well as women's presence in the military, but more importantly, their presence on the actual battlefield alongside men.

This is very important to note because in our society women are not yet allowed to fight in combat on the front lines with men (USA). We can list various reasons why that have been proposed many times before:

1.) Our country isn't ready to see women coming home from war in body bags.
2.) Actual physiological differences that generally result in men being physically stronger than women. Not all! I've certainly known women who were stronger than their male counterparts.
3.) Sexual tension between allies, which will inevitably cause problems and drama that doesn't belong on the battlefield.
4.) The possibility of females being raped by the enemy if they are taken captive (and while it is sad, but true, the possibility of the aforementioned by allies).
5.) Males faltering in battle when a female is hit or killed, and perhaps putting others in danger by lingering on the women as opposed to continuing the fight or sticking to orders.

Because of these reasons, the fact that there are women on the battlefield in Azeroth and even in military leadership positions is a huge statement about gender equality.

How we are similar:
Most male characters in Azeroth seem to possess the strong, alpha male gender role that we see in our own society. Weakness in men is also disdained, as it is in our society. Men in Azeroth and in our society highly value and are attracted to strong females who are accomplished and possess a sense of direction.

Give an example of a lore character that is contrary to stereotypical gender role.

Anduin Wrynn

Give an example of a lore character that falls into a stereotypical gender role.

Magni Bronzebeard

Why is this important?

Why is what important?

How does gender socialization affect your ability to roleplay the opposite sex?

I never play characters of the opposite sex.
Edited by Ruvias on 10/3/2012 10:55 PM PDT
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90 Troll Warlock
12330
I have no problems at all when playing as a female character.

I don't do it too much because when some people find out you're a dude, they treat you way differently.
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90 Human Paladin
9850
I have no problems at all when playing as a female character.

I don't do it too much because when some people find out you're a dude, they treat you way differently.
Buy your own enchants, PERVERT.
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I think when most of your time is spent granting humanity and autonomy to blue tentacled space goats, sex and/or gender becomes less of an issue. I'm going to play along with the dichotomies of male and female here, although many different gender identities have been scientifically identified.

How do you think our society and the socialization pertaining to gender is different from the races in Azeroth? How do you think they are similar?

They seem to be pretty equal. Aside from trolls I don't see any real rampant sexism. Women seem to be held to the same standard as men, and the big defining characteristic as said above is that women fight alongside men in the military of BOTH factions, and even command them. This is a HUGE indicator about sex and gender equality in Azeroth. Conversely I've seen examples of male NPCs cooking and taking care of children, after all, Varian is a single father, and Anduin had a step-father in his absence, for example. Seems that they just do what they have to to ensure their quality of life is left intact, so to speak. Whoever can do the work, does.

Give an example of a lore character that is contrary to stereotypical gender role.

Sylvanas Windrunner.

Give an example of a lore character that falls into a stereotypical gender role.

Mylune.

Why is this important?

?

How does gender socialization affect your ability to roleplay the opposite sex?

I don't roleplay the opposite sex per se, although one could consider Cal'mai to be functionally agender (though she uses "she" pronouns, she'll also respond to singular they). She doesn't really care if she's read as male or female (as she's been read as both at different times), all she cares about is that people respect her for who she is. She has traits that would be considered in line with all genders.
Edited by Calmai on 10/3/2012 11:48 PM PDT
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90 Troll Warlock
12330
I have no problems at all when playing as a female character.

I don't do it too much because when some people find out you're a dude, they treat you way differently.
Buy your own enchants, PERVERT.


It's not a "lolfreestuff" type thing.

A lot of males on the internet are just generally nicer and more helpful towards what they perceive as females.

Just an observation.
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90 Tauren Warrior
16095
10/03/2012 11:43 PMPosted by Volkuza
A lot of males on the internet are just generally nicer and more helpful towards what they perceive as females.


True story.
It's interesting, because female players treat me VASTLY differently if they think I'm a guy. I play a male character, I do it convincingly, so I must be a guy irl, right?

The best part is, the guy I currently RP most frequently is a skeezebag, and an obvious one. He's meant to creep people out and make their characters slightly uncomfortable, which he's been doing fairly well. People ease into him after they get over the initial slime.
But because I play him as an overtly misogynistic troll (which is more troll-traditional than anything else), I actually get a fair bit of OOC hate from female players.

This hate disappears 100% of the time when and if my IRL gender comes up.
Edited by Baenhoof on 10/4/2012 12:05 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Warrior
5420
10/03/2012 03:24 PMPosted by Systar
How do you think our society and the socialization pertaining to gender is different from the races in Azeroth?
Yes, very much so. How we perceive the male and female gender in reality is quite different from how they are portrayed and received in Azeroth.

For instance, females are not allowed on the combat field in the real world, due to the obvious weaknesses of enemy torcher and manipulation.

In Azeroth, we don't see as much of either gender being used in that sense, thusly the views of what is done in the field or against enemy combatants is literally left up to the imagination of the players.

Socialization is very equal from what I've seen thus far in Azeroth, males and females are formidable ally or foe and neither are discriminated against. Whether it's human, elf, or dwarf and gnome, all are considered to be justified in their right and willingness to fight in the ongoing wars.

While in reality we know that discrimination exists, and is far from going away. After all, those internet jokes of "Going back to the kitchen" is not all that funny to an actual female, yet it persists. I've seen people discriminated against for simply being red-haired. Is it right? No, but people are going to be picky about one faucet or another in regards to traits and genepool training.

How do you think they are similar?
See above..
Give an example of a lore character that is contrary to stereotypical gender role.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore, her depiction within the Azerothian world is a woman of strength that has seen terrible things happen to those that she loves, and had the backbone to speak out against her prince in a time of turmoil. She didn't settle down with anyone, and pursued her interests with fervour and that's something that is very contrary to the stereotypical gender role in and out of Azeroth.
Give an example of a lore character that falls into a stereotypical gender role.
Mountain King Magni Bronzebeard, that one is self explanatory.
Why is this important?
It isn't. All genders can become whatever they wish to aspire to be, that's is the delight about Azeroth that enthralls so many. (Within some believable limitations, of course. We can't all be pirates after all...that would ruin the fun of the games diversity!)
How does gender socialization affect your ability to roleplay the opposite sex?
It doesn't, as you have seen with interactions with my male hunter. I enjoy having the freedom to play the male personality quite a bit, and it gives me room to explore the mental standing of male thinking in a way I never had the oppurtunity to before. (And doing so safely, I might add.)
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11905
My name was said, I have been summoned. I am monitoring this thread with interest.
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I'm pretty sure the lack of sexism in warcraft is because blizzard doesn't want to get hounded by the super-liberal club, just like the changed the Light to be less Christian because they didn't want to get crap from both the super liberal club and the far right.
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10/04/2012 05:49 AMPosted by Xiaoqing
just like the changed the Light to be less Christian because they didn't want to get crap from both the super liberal club and the far right.


People keep saying that, but no one has been able to source it. It's rather annoying really.


That was just one example. There are plenty of others as well. Although I don't really see why else they would want to change that sort of thing if they weren't getting pressure.
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