Am I the only one who actually Likes Garrosh?

1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
Title.

I actually really like this guy. He feels like an orc. He's blunt, he's powerful, he knows what he wants and takes steps to claim it for himself. Huge upgrade from the complete ineptitude of Thrall as Warchief.

Sure, Blizzard plays up some negative aspects of him too hard, since he's been deemed the bad guy of WoW this cycle, so obviously we have to try really hard to turn him into a complete bigot and monster, but still.
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Title.

I actually really like this guy. He feels like an orc. He's blunt, he's powerful, he knows what he wants and takes steps to claim it for himself. Huge upgrade from the complete ineptitude of Thrall as Warchief.

Sure, Blizzard plays up some negative aspects of him too hard, since he's been deemed the bad guy of WoW this cycle, so obviously we have to try really hard to turn him into a complete bigot and monster, but still.


I pretty much agree with this. It doesn't make much sense to have Thrall be the ideal Orc, when most of his orcish cultural knowledge is second hand. Now, so is Garrosh's, but at least it's not human. He's acting like the orcs of old, before the second wave of demon blood. The orcs under Doomhammer.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
I used to like him but he makes no sense with regard to the story, and he's been slated for hitler-levels of evil.
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90 Human Mage
13215
Garrosh in BC was a mess

Garrosh in Wrath was a lot better

Garrosh in Cata was inconsistent

Garrosh in Pandaria is a loot pinata
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85 Worgen Rogue
10845
Garrosh had great potential in BC

They screwed it up poorly in Wrath

In Cataclysm they make him even more bipolar

Pandaria is pretty much dim

I, personally, still like Thrall more than Garrosh, even if they've taken great strides at making him a pansy.
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I don't have anything against someone liking Garrosh for who he is as long as they aren't creating some idealized version of Garrosh by only considering his best moments to be significant.

Personally though, I think he's a terrible Warchief. In spite of the name the position is both military and political. Garrosh understands war well enough, but he doesn't understand politics at all. He doesn't understand that for all the blood oaths and ceremony, if he fails to keep the other members of the Horde happy they may eventually turn on him. Right now the only Horde leader that's even close to being solidly on his side is Gallywix, and that's only because the Trade Prince see's profit in war.

Vol'jin and Baine are both on the verge of rebellion, with Baine being a little more overt about it currently (both only because his people's increased distance from Orgrimmar means he can get away with more). Lor'themar may be loyal to the Horde, but his loyalty to Garrosh is questionable at best. Who knows what Sylvanas's ultimate goals are, but the Forsaken aren't the type to be loyal to Garrosh, or anyone else for that matter, for a second after the benefits stop outweighing the drawbacks. Ji Firepaw is of course too much of a newcommer to have solid views on inner Horde politics, but I would be astounded if a single Pandaren stick with Garrosh to the bitter end.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/05/2012 06:40 PMPosted by Spellestra
Garrosh in Wrath was a lot better


I'm sorry -what-?
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85 Human Mage
4460
My issue was that he was portrayed very inconsistently. Of course, taking his appearances chronologically, as opposed to the order we received the information in, we -can- see a portrayal that actually isn't that bad.

BC - Depressed, becomes emboldened by knowledge of his father's redemption.
Wrath - Naive, but proactive, learns the meaning of honor, but develops an unexplained hatred for the Alliance.
Pre-Cata - Insight into the care of his people, his agony over their plight, and his ascension to Warchief to protect them.
Wolfheart - A tactically sound general, his defeat from an almost resounding victory has an adverse effect on him.
Cata: Ashenvale - Hatred of Demons, reaffirmed.
Cata: Stonetalon - Honor being a priority, reaffirmed.
Cata: General decisions - A glimpse into a mild shift in the Horde's view (replacing the S. Barrens commander with someone more blood thirsty, though admittedly competent).
Cata: TH Intro - A glimpse into his desperation to defeat the Alliance, he begins making unsound military judgments.
Tides of War - Unsavory additions to the Horde (Blackrock Orcs) coincide with increasingly dishonorable tactics and tyrannical commands.
MoP - In increasing desperation, the defeat of the Alliance becomes an obsession that has begun to blind him to his previous values, such as his hatred of demons, (the active use of Warlocks in the Jade Forest intro). His handling of Pandaren joining the Horde likewise shows a slow shift away from caring about his people and the Horde, towards killing Alliance at all costs.

Overall, it has been a bit of a roller-coaster ride, but given the chronological order, it makes some sense. Continued losses to the Alliance have been driving him to increasing desperation that not only led to rudimentary mistakes, but a blindness that has caused him to forget his morals and what the Horde stands for.
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85 Worgen Rogue
10845
That all said, I still would have loved to see some kind of "What if?" or alternate universe scenario where Saurfang Jr. is still alive and is Warchief of the Horde instead.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6640
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6R4U6OdY64
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85 Human Mage
4460
10/05/2012 06:49 PMPosted by Donahue
That all said, I still would have loved to see some kind of "What if?" or alternate universe scenario where Saurfang Jr. is still alive and is Warchief of the Horde instead.


I'm still quite willing to see an alternate universe. Would be nice to see a lot of decisions made by game mechanics to instead flow naturally through the story. Blood Elves wouldn't have been forced Horde to balance player numbers. Even if the Sunwell's redemption had played out, if Kael hadn't been a villain, you wouldn't have High Elves; they'd just be those Light-wielding Blood Elves. Besides, it was Lor'themar who really created the schism between High Elves and Blood Elves in the first place.

Night Elves might not have been blatantly attacked by the Horde, who might not have been forced to accept the Forsaken into their ranks, meaning the Horde could have developed and grown into the faction of Noble Savages it should have remained.

Night Elves wouldn't have need to have been neutered.

So many possibilities...
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85 Worgen Rogue
10845
10/05/2012 06:50 PMPosted by Gilderien
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6R4U6OdY64


I just gotta come out and say it right now that I really hate that video.

Although, I'm also not a fan of "Varian Varian" either.

10/05/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Elenie
So many possibilities...


I would have liked a story where Saurfang Jr. and Garrosh developed a brotherly friendship. Something born from a mutual understanding of bloodlust, with Dranosh helping Garrosh overcome his and Garrosh ultimately triumphing in succession of his father.

It could draw the same parallels as Thrall/Grom or Durotan/Orgrim.

Dranosh could have also built a keen friendship with Baine, who shares a similar story of the loss of his father. (I'm a sucker for stories of "loss" as you can imagine.)
Edited by Donahue on 10/5/2012 6:57 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
Garrosh was oddly emo in BC, but understandable.

Garrosh was a jerk, but an understandable jerk in Wrath.

Pre-Cata Garrosh was good.

Garrosh made a great warchief for orcs, not so much the others in Cata. Which was what the Orcs needed. Someone who cared about their needs.

Wolfheart gave him a new brain to the point of not making sense.

Garrosh's short story explained his new attitude well.

Tides of War had him change too fast, but it's understandable.

MoP makes sense regarding his character. Using warlocks =/= working with the Legion or drinking his blood.

Blizz just sucks at getting their message across. It takes other writers and fans to describe his character, and do it better.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
10/05/2012 06:52 PMPosted by Elenie
Light-wielding Blood Elves


Only if they use it to torture and contain demons so they can wield fel magic too.

Night Elves might not have been blatantly attacked by the Horde, who might not have been forced to accept the Forsaken into their ranks, meaning the Horde could have developed and grown into the faction of Noble Savages it should have remained.

Night Elves wouldn't have need to have been neutered.

So many possibilities...


You keep blaming Game mechanics rather than dumb writing. WHY?
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90 Human Mage
13215
10/05/2012 06:46 PMPosted by Skytotem
Garrosh in Wrath was a lot better


I'm sorry -what-?


Garrosh in Wrath wasn't emo. Ya, I get the fact he spent most of his life convinced his father had doomed his race, but you didn't see anyone else wallowing in despair, like Jorin Deadeye.

In Wrath, Garrosh was a lot more proactive, if slightly volatile
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85 Human Mage
4460
10/05/2012 06:58 PMPosted by Skytotem
You keep blaming Game mechanics rather than dumb writing. WHY?


Let me ask you this... If the Forsaken weren't a part of the Horde, or were removed from the Horde for their betrayal at Wrathgate, what do you think would have reasonably happened? Would there be a war? Would the Horde have proved it has changed?

Let's face it, the Forsaken being part of the Horde was always a story fallacy necessary for game mechanics. I still can't figure out how they justified Thrall of all people allowing a DREADLORD into the Horde, in a position of authority no less.
Edited by Elenie on 10/5/2012 7:08 PM PDT
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
Garrosh in Wrath wasn't emo. Ya, I get the fact he spent most of his life convinced his father had doomed his race, but you didn't see anyone else wallowing in despair, like Jorin Deadeye.

In Wrath, Garrosh was a lot more proactive, if slightly volatile


1. Jorin wasn't moping. Did you even read his quests?

2. He was TOO volatile, that's the whole issue. Plus his unexplained " I hate the Alliance" thing, plus the babykilling advocating, his decisions being -portrayed- as stupid even when they were sound and he was pretty damn unlikable in every way.

EDIT:

Let me ask you this... If the Forsaken weren't a part of the Horde, or were removed from the Horde for their betrayal at Wrathgate, what do you think would have reasonably happened? Would there be a war? Would the Horde have proved it has changed?

Let's face it, the Forsaken being part of the Horde was always a story fallacy necessary for game mechanics. I still can't figure out how they justified Thrall of all people allowing a DREADLORD into the Horde, in a position of authority no less.


1. Or if the Forsaken hadn't been written to be idiots it could've not happened.

2. Only because they completely dropped the plotline explaining why they joined, and chose a pretty weak one for that in the first place. Could've just been that Thrall wants anti-scourge forces and uses them to try and keep the Scourge bottlenecked in Lordaeron rather than moving his forces over there.

3. They shouldn't have, that was bad writing. Should've traded the dreadlord to the Blood Elves or locked him up or 'killed' him as a condition of joining the Horde.
Edited by Skytotem on 10/5/2012 7:12 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
13215
That's a typo on my part. It should say 'unlike Jorin'

The point I was making is, though Garadar was far from a happy palce, at least everyone was doing stuff to keep things going. Garrosh was just giving up
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85 Human Mage
4460
10/05/2012 07:08 PMPosted by Skytotem
1. Jorin wasn't moping. Did you even read his quests?


I think he meant Jorin as an example of a prominent Orc's son who -wasn't- moping over his father's sins.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
The Orcs still would've been jerks. Let's be honest. Why would they ever like the Alliance?

Thrall didn't want to actually. I think Magatha or Hamuul convinced him that they were victims. Thrall allowed warlocks as a necessary evil. He probably thought Sylvanas could control him. Because no one betrays Sylvanas. Ever. At all.

Besides if he con tolerate slave rings, gladiator matches, orcs attacking night elves, blood elves having a leper gnome slave ring, and draining a naaru, why not allow a dreadlord or two?
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