High Rated Perspective: Fix These

80 Draenei Shaman
6415
These are a list of problems I have seem in PvP playing at a high MMR in both RBGs and arenas. For full disclosure, I multi-comp all of the casters and healers. I've never played melee, nor do I plan to, since I don't always have the best internet. I've played mage, shaman, priest, and druid to high levels (glad on mage/shaman, up to r3 on mage). I am currently playing a holy paladin. I've played 2s (WP, MP, HP, Ret/Rogue, Ret/Sham) and 3s (Shatterplay, RPPal, TSG, KFC and Thugcleave).
These are the things that need changes by class (in my opinion). Feel free to disagree! I make this list because I think a healthy dialogue is needed to change things and I feel that I bring a pretty rational reasoning behind what I say instead of the OMG DIS CLAS KIL ME NERF NOWWW! that you see (mostly) on the forums.

Finally, I go in with the understanding that MoP was supposed to be the end of the burst era and supposedly going back to the style of play we saw in BC and s6 (namely slow and based around control).

Things that need fixing NOW. These five things will make arena THIS season much better. If any of these three things don’t get fixed you’re going to have (yet another) !@#$ty season.

  • 1) Interrupts. %^-*ing fix this. This has gone on too long. EVERY class (inc exaggeration that’s sadly not too far off) has 2 of these on top of 2 stuns, a disorient and every other god damn version of an interrupt that exists. The reason that priests suck right now, for example, can be traced back to the fact that they have to hard cast. Look at the order in strength of comp and healers. It's literally "least cast time to most cast time."
  • 2) PvP Power. What the !@#$ is the point of baseline resilience if you put so much PvP Power in the game that it all but evaporates? We're at the same burst as was on beta THAT EVERYONE COMPLAINED ABOUT. It's really making me wonder if Blizzard even tries anymore and that's sad because it's never been this bad before. This season is horrid so far. Trip DPS is probably going to be amazing... again.
  • 3) Reset the MMR. Yup. Reset it. You %^-*ed up. Admit it. Ladders are broken, class balance all but does not exist and teams are going to sit on their rating 2 weeks from now and never budge. You don't have to create decay but you do need to reset the MMR a la s9 so mage teams don't just AFK their way up the ladder again. Look at how many first time glads are on AJ just this last expac. It's absolutely mind-boggling. The most competitive orientated websites (EJ, AJ) pretty much don't exist anymore. No one looks at them because you're slowly killing your own game.
  • 4) Hybrid Heals: Nerf them. There’s too much. Only Spriest (since they have limited damage around a CD) should have the healing that they have. The fact that Enh/Ret Paladins heal as much as the do is dumb.
  • 5) CCs last too long. Repentance is 8 seconds, fear is like 7. They should be six, four, two respectively. Any longer and you verge on broken. I mean look at ALL of the complaints about fear. Your DR isn’t working, CC’s last too long and on top of that they overlay. I’ve had THREE fears on me at ONCE before (as one ended the other kept going which is not what DR is ).
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    80 Draenei Shaman
    6415
    Hunter
  • Lynx Rush - This was time, and time again, mentioned in beta. The fact that it wasn't nerfed simply shows Blizzard being lazy (hopefully) or just ignoring their customers. Lynx Rush needs a nerf on damage. Spirit Beasts are likely ignoring resilience and that needs a HOTFIX, not a "wait until patch.”
  • Beastial Wrath - Needs a nerf on damage. This is another spell that can be a 100% to 0% skill if the other team does not have a cooldown up for it. This game is not supposed to simply be a binary trading cooldowns orientated game. If it were, we could all go play checkers or chess and be less frustrated. Beastial Wrath does not need a huge nerf, but it needs to be one of those "creates pressure" spells, not an "I win" button if you get lucky.
  • Hunter Damage - Needs to go up. Hunters don't do any damage unless they have the above cooldowns up. You're going to have to play around with the PvE aspect of the game, but if you nerf BW/LR, you might be able to make that swing around. I'm not sure how you can do this, but this is why you get paid by 10 million people.

  • Pet Health/Surv - Pets are too easy to drop in 3s or 5s. 2s, you can usually keep up the pet if you are quick on the swap. In 3s or 5s they drop immediately.
  • Paladin
  • CC- Paladins have too much of this. On my holy paladin I can CC a caster/healer for 20 seconds alone. Granted this doesn't mean much anymore because resto druids can just keep their partners up ad-infinitum even with CC chains that long (and their usual partners, mages, locks, and warriors don't die anyway) but this has to change for the inevitable healing nerf. Rep for 8 seconds, Blinding LIght for 6, Torrent for 3, HoJ for 4 sec and if the other healer has to hardcast (not druids) you can force them to have to juke or kick their heal further SOLO CC'ing ONE person for a long, long time.

  • Healing -There's too much of it. A gladiator paladin told me he was considering playing prot again because it seems like it works a la s7 again. Ret Paladins have insane offheals. You can heal BETTER than disc priests as a ret paladin if you play defensively (esp in RBGs). Selfless healer as ret is just too good when combined with WoG, hard casted heals and holy prism. Holy Paladins don't have to hard-cast except very rarely and most of the time they can just aura it.
  • Ret Damage: It's great during bursts (bordering on too good) and non-existent any other time. This is a pretty constant thing. On top of that you took the slow that you promised rets and put it on the same tier as a 30 sec stun and Rep meaning no one can get it. Imagine (I'll use mages since that seems to be all that you guys understand) that you put Ice Block as a talent along with Polymorph and then asked mages why they weren’t taking Poly after complaining about not having 6 CC’s, instead of the 5 they have already.
  • Sacred Shield: Blows. It shouldn’t even be a talent. With the damage going out right now it’s literally on the same level as the Tebow glyph in usefulness. Maybe less since with the Tebow glyph you’re praying and there’s a slight chance Ghostcrawler might actually balance correctly for once.
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    80 Draenei Shaman
    6415
    Warrior
  • Healing: Where do I even start. Second wind is beyond broken. We played a 2100 Warr/RSham team, killed the RSham and spent the next 6 minutes trying to get a kill on the warrior. Second wind literally lasts forever and due to BM damage being horrid without CDs (and LoS + SW heals) a warrior should be, and is, unkillable. You just can’t kill them. Too many defensive CDs .
  • Shockwave: Get the !@#$ rid of this bull%^-*. I don’t even understand the need. “Dear Warriors, are you !@#$ at this game and can’t get an interrupt even with 3 of them? Well don’t worry! We have a proposition for you. Just Shockwave and AoE interrupt EVERYTHING + Stun! Need uptime? Nope. Need skill? %^-* no. You’re a warrior and you should be the avatar (see what I did there) of Ghostcrawler himself.
  • Damage: Speaking of retarded, what the hell is this damage? Warriors hit like gods. Two ways to fix this, first make DPS cooldowns put a cooldown on other ones. That way you can’t Swifty (read: pop them all at once like a skill-less mongo) people down. Use Avatar? Then Beserking is on CD for 30 seconds, etc. Second, lower white damage. My warrior hits for, and I kid you not, 32k white hits OFTEN. To put that in perspective as a ret paladin I sometimes TEMPLARS VERDICT (my finisher) for that much.
  • Mobility: Warriors deserve mobility. No one wants to see them sitting in novas all day. That being said, they have way too much mobility right now. It’s like watching Cartman zipline down a mountain. You feel like he should be slowed down or stop at any moment but instead he goes right at you like you’re made of chocolate cake. There’s an easy way to fix this (nerf mages and their mobility problems are gone, but let’s be real, that’s not going to happen). After all those first time glad mages need to get it twice so they can keep talking !@#$ about their skill.
  • Warrior Fear: Doesn’t break on damage. Tested it over and over again. You can drop someone from 60% to 0% in it.
  • Shamans
  • Enhancement Mobility: Needs a pretty hefty nerf. They don’t stop chugging along. Otherwise they’re fine. They do, like ret, a tad bit too much damage but if I ask you to nerf it they’ll probably be doing rogue damage next patch so let’s skip that.
  • Ele Damage: They need a damage nerf. They hit really, really hard if they can free cast.
  • Ele Mobility: They need a way to cast (like most other casters).. oh wait, if you nerf warrior mobility than they can cast. AND HEY if you remove some of the trillion interrupts that every class has (read: mages) they can cast too. Well damn. That almost makes logical sense.
  • Totems: These seem fine. Maybe give some more health to all the totems minus grounding totem, which should remain at 5 (and the ones with ~32k already).
  • Monks
    Honestly. I have no idea. Mistweavers need a nerf to AoE healing. Otherwise, all the monks I have seem are horrible. They have mobility and that’s it. I’ll put more here when I face a solid one.
    Edited by Junglecat on 10/6/2012 3:21 PM PDT
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    80 Draenei Shaman
    6415
    Druids
  • Healing: They need a HUGE nerf to healing. We played a rdruid/mage team that we CC’d for something like 25-30 seconds at a time and he’d still keep the mage up through CDs /DoTs. The easy way to fix this is to make them have to actually cast something. I think I’ve only got to kick like 3 regrowths a game because how little of it they cast. Beating druid teams is supposed to be all about swapping around as hots fall off. Unfortunately the way the game is right now, you can’t do this. At all.
  • CC: Remove their ability to pounce. The talent + Pounce means positioning for clones is non-existent. A good druid will always get one off. Repentance needs to work on non-caster form druids too. It’s nearly impossible to get one off on a good druid.
  • Mobility: I mean.. really? I won’t even go in to this, it’s that obvious. Displacer Beast, and that entire talent tier, are just all really stupid. It makes me thing a five year old designed that tier.
  • Heart of the Wild: Druids hit for 200k Wraths. Let’s fix this please.
  • Rogues
  • Rogues just need to do a TAD bit more damage right now. That’s it. Otherwise they are the ideal for ALL classes. Good rogues flourish, bad rogues don’t. End of story. IE: Nerf everyone else to rogues, not buff rogues to everyone.
  • Priest:
  • Damage: Shadow does too much damage with 3 orbs + CDs and too little without. If they free cast it’s over, if they don’t… the don’t. This needs somewhat of a fix.
  • Priests will be fine if you do the other fixes. They have mobility problems and throughput problems because they have to hardcast in game with 30 interrupts. Fix those and priests get better. I guarantee those 5 things I outline will make this season far better than it is and will fix the other problems in this game.
  • Mages:
  • Mages are perfectly fine. Please don’t nerf them. Hopefully now you’ll enact my other changes since I agree that mages are the most skill based class right now and are perfectly fine. 100%
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    80 Draenei Shaman
    6415
    while i agree with some of the post like MMR resets and hybrid healing being too strong, the rest of it looks like you complaining just for the sake of complaining

    if u call yourself "high rated" and want to actually be taken seriously don't complain about classes having CC that "lasts too long" and interrupts, you make yourself look like a moron


    I'm confused. You literally chose the MOST vague things I talked about and agreed to them. How about actually pointing out something I chose and saying what part of it is "just complaining?" You literally offered nothing to the discussion. I explained why the CC is too long (8 sec rep, 7 sec fear instead of 6 for both). The amount of interrupts is also obvious. Juking no longer becomes something that defines good play because you end up either juking to death or getting hit by one of the 8 interrupts a team has in total.

    Again, offer specifics or I'll just ignore the response next time.

    Not only that but I ask for buffs for certain classes to make up for what they lose. I don't even play most of the classes I said need buffs (I've only played paladin since I quit in s9 until 1 week before s11 season ended).
    Edited by Junglecat on 10/6/2012 3:39 PM PDT
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    90 Night Elf Warrior
    7600
    Bump
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    90 Night Elf Druid
    2310
    I'd agree with some of those and disagree with others. Druid's having mobility is fine, healing itself needs to be reduced for us and I think the best way for that is just a solid mastery nerf. It's the easiest and least potential way to break us at the moment for both PvE and PvP.

    Agree perfectly with Rogue/Shaman/Priests

    Mage's I'd just like to see fire blast glyph changed. Warriors the ability to blow every cooldown at once and make gag order blanket silence is a bit too much. Hunters need a nerf to Lynx rush and a boost to sustain. Off-spec healing in general is way to high...I agree there.

    I use HotW and agree a nerf needs to happen for this ability. I suspect cutting's its damage a bit and reducing it's duration to 3min and letting it last 30seconds. If you pop it for a kill and after 30seconds haven't got your kill let it be. 45 seconds is just too long, less than 30 seconds doesnt give cat form time for much but 1 FB and some mangle's. 30 seconds can edge you out with 2 FB and a few mangles with good up time. All you *should* need imo. 30 seconds should be more than plenty for ferals to get heals off as well.

    Making CC's have a more broad DR set-up would go a long way on the CC issue I believe.

    Stuns/Scatter/Blind/Hex etc.
    Fear/Poly/Cyclone/Traps/Repent etc.
    Roots/Horror/Blanket Silences (leave silences when interrupting a certain school in effect, just a small nerf to the blanket silences)
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    90 Pandaren Priest
    6855
    Just make ALL CC that makes you lose control of your character share the same diminishing returns and put all melee interrupts on longer CDs or make them not lock schools.

    Just make it to where you have to pick the right time to interrupt instead of getting one every 6 sec with school locks for 4 sec.
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    80 Draenei Shaman
    6415
    Top to bottom.

    @Elaine, I'm also currently 1910 putting me at #3 on my BG. My play isn't the important part. Am I perfect? Hell no. I'm not god awful either. I make mistakes but I'm not playing to the point where I'm just horrible and not doing what I need to do. I'm also not complaining about how I'm doing. I even said my class was broken with CC and healing.

    I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MY ABILITY TO PLAY BUT THE GAME AS IT IS NOW.

    @Kurain, I won't disagree there. Druid's are CCable and you can force positioning. The only problem is that in RBGs (not arenas) the mobility can be good enough to the point that some teams are running them as FCs.

    @Morass

    I actually wrote out a long response and then realized you were trolling after seeing the 6k white hits on your "fully geared warrior" thing. Well done.
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    90 Night Elf Druid
    2310
    Top to bottom.

    @Elaine, I'm also currently 1910 putting me at #3 on my BG. My play isn't the important part. Am I perfect? Hell no. I'm not god awful either. I make mistakes but I'm not playing to the point where I'm just horrible and not doing what I need to do. I'm also not complaining about how I'm doing. I even said my class was broken with CC and healing.

    I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT MY ABILITY TO PLAY BUT THE GAME AS IT IS NOW.

    @Kurain, I won't disagree there. Druid's are CCable and you can force positioning. The only problem is that in RBGs (not arenas) the mobility can be good enough to the point that some teams are running them as FCs.

    @Morass

    I actually wrote out a long response and then realized you were trolling after seeing the 6k white hits on your "fully geared warrior" thing. Well done.


    Druids were always viable FCs except for mid-late wotlk and and Cata.

    Vanilla- Druids ran flags along with prot warriors.
    TBC- Druids ran flags along with tanks.

    Until tank scaling went WAY up in wotlk druids have always had a viable spot at running flags. To say they shouldn't be able to now for what ever reasons is not true if they have been restored the utilities to due so. If you are worried that it replaces some other roles no feral druid is going to be able to "hold" the flag as well as a tank. Run it possibly, but not at holding it which is where hand offs could come into play. Which was done in TBC and Vanilla as well.

    Acting like druid flag runners is new to the game is not true in anyway. Druids have always been able to cover ground with flags extremely easy. Due to this I can't say that these changes were against the design intention to begin with given their BG history.

    Edit: I will also say I got out of habit of competitive PvP Mid-Wotlk like most others and have just now picked WoW back up and consider it a staple game I play again. Sure I spot played off and on in Cata and such, but it was never really much. So, I'm still more in tune with how things were at the start of wotlk-mid season, and I also played competitively with pre-mades in TBC. I pretty much remember my druid's main goal there was to grab the flag run it back and hand it off to our prot warrior. Reason being I could cover more ground way quicker than anyone else.

    If the game design as a whole has changed to purposely remove druids from this role I'm curious as to the reason why? Why remove an option from a class that was so staple to it for many years?
    Edited by Kurain on 10/6/2012 9:33 PM PDT
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    90 Orc Shaman
    7045
    Shamans
    [li]Enhancement Mobility: Needs a pretty hefty nerf. They don’t stop chugging along.
    Here is where you lost me. Enhancement's mobility was gutted. They have probably the worst mobility of any melee except maybe rogues.
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    100 Troll Shaman
    14300
    Shamans
    [li]Enhancement Mobility: Needs a pretty hefty nerf. They don’t stop chugging along.
    Here is where you lost me. Enhancement's mobility was gutted. They have probably the worst mobility of any melee except maybe rogues.


    This. A snare will pretty much stop our most of our damage against ranged.

    10/06/2012 03:18 PMPosted by Junglecat
    The fact that Enh/Ret Paladins heal as much as the do is dumb.


    I can't speak for ret, but enhance needs the ability to heal. We are relatively easy to kill as it is. We have no bubble, no deterrence, no ice block, no anti magic shell, poor cc, etc. The only things we have are our damage mitigation CDs and heals. Take that away and we are completely F'd
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    90 Human Death Knight
    5735
    you just said mages are fine. your really good man like #3 on ur bg 1 week into the season man bro U WIN UR SO AWESOME god why cant i be like you owait jk nd if you were EVEN SEMI DECENT youd know pvp power was maybe one of the best choices blizz has made bcuz lets be real here your OBVIOUSLY one of those kids who ran like legendary RLS or something RETARDED like that cuz you thought you were just like SO GOOD AMG GUYZ.

    Mages are balanced

    Posting on alts = awesome
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    4035
    I agree with everything you said. Specially with the interrupts. There are way too many on way too short of cool downs. And as you said many classes have them in bunches.

    It comes down to Blizzard dumbing down PVP. With the exception of my Rogue most classes used to have to strategically plan their interrupts. Now classes have so many interrupts on such short cd's they can freely interrupt any spell at any time... It's like computer assistance for dummies...
    Edited by Ninfoe on 10/8/2012 10:14 PM PDT
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