MONKS worst [PvP] Class in the game!

90 Blood Elf Monk
7465
WIND WALKERS

I have full dread gear. I leveled 1-90 not 80-90 like some of the people that did RAF, so i got to learn my class inch by inch. I know how to play a monk so please don't comment on this thread below if you don't have a monk and don't know what you're talking about. Here are the disadvantages for Wind walker Monks in PvP:

* FIRST: {{STUNS}} Giving monks 2 stuns is cool right?!?!?, but not when the range of the stuns is currently messed up. Ex: Rogues with stuns you can spam your stun until u get close enough to apply it. Wind walkers if i were to spam it the ability will cast and miss most of the time, even when you think you're close enough the stun still isn't 100% effective as rogues. [I'm not trying to say make us like rogues, but i'm trying to say make us at least a class for PvP.]

*SECOND: {{CHARGE}} This one makes me laugh. LETS GIVE BREW MASTERS A CHARGE & NOT A WIND WALKER THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE A PVP/PVE. Wind Walkers don't have a charge, but a tank does!? Wind walkers/Brew maters/Mist weavers all have a roll. Wind walkers do have a long mobility its kind of a charge, but it doesn't go directly towards its target like a normal Brew master or Warrior charge which is a huge disadvantage in PvP.

*THIRD: {{DPS}} DPS as a Wind Walker is brutal. Wind walkers are the first DPS class to not have DPS cool-downs, but we do have Tiger's Brew which is 1-10 charge which we can stack up, but you wont ever notice that much of a difference in damage increase. Wind walker monks have 2 defensive abilities that the Mist Weaver should have for healing do to how squishy you are even if you do have 5.5k res like me. BUFF THERE DPS SO WE CAN ACTUALLY COMPETE IN PVP ACTUALLY!!!

*FINALLY: {{Touch of Death}} People who don't know what TOD ability is or what it does. It's an execute. I can mess up a WARRIOR pretty good, but not when I have to have the glyph of Touch of death which doesn't cost chi. That is not bad at all, but what is bad is if you don't have the full set bonus you can't EXECUTE PvP PLAYERS?! Monks dps in pvp is so bad we need an execute for free!. I can never kill warrior that's my gear not because there a strong class now, but because of second wind. It's just a kick in the face for us monks we can't finish an opponent. Another thing is are dps is so low in PvP you think we can own healers pfffff not even a close chance. At least give us a chance with dps CD's or a healing Reductive ability.

I've been playing this game since Launch, and this is by almost by far the worst class in PvP I've experience and saw in awhile! I leveled 1-90 spent all my time into getting a monk to 90 now im done playing my monk already because every spec is bad in PvP and even PvE. The only good class in PvE is Mist Weaver Healers due to there mana regen and ability to have mana pots massive aoe healing/Raid cd's.

(Please if you Agree) Please share this thread as much as possible.
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100 Draenei Paladin
11380
No offense, but launch was 2 weeks ago. Two weeks isn't enough time to really learn your class "inch by inch". You may have some valid concerns, but it's way to early to push the panic button.
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90 Human Paladin
3955
First off, we have a healing reduction ability, it's Rising Sun Kick. Secondly, Tigereye Brew, Invoke Xuen, Energizing Brew, and Chi Brew can all be called DPS Cooldowns. Our CC is not bad. Our damage is lacking outside of Rising Sun Kick, but I feel that is because Fists of Fury can be so difficult to aim with, and that is supposed to be our other heavy hitter. I would like to see something done with Fists of Fury that makes it viable in PvP. I Personally hate the cone, and would rather just be a targeted ability.
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100 Human Monk
7390
I am not 90 yet but I have put some thought into the pvp ability of a Monk. The movement aspect seems to me to be the key. More and more I think Monks are based on different situations. For example. Warrior/Rogue melee classes use your ranged spells. They do decent dmg and seem pretty effective. But if a mage or caster is on you dive in get to meleein. Just my opinion my main reason I am telling you is I want you as a 90 to try it and see if it works at that level as well.

-Zen
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90 Gnome Monk
6400
Anyone else have an extremely hard time trying to understand this guys typing?

Proof read

Then post.

Thanks!
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
5640
I dont know what you're talking about i dont have pvp gear and i dominate everything and im a death knight.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7465
10/07/2012 12:23 PMPosted by Gowancomando
No offense, but launch was 2 weeks ago. Two weeks isn't enough time to really learn your class "inch by inch". You may have some valid concerns, but it's way to early to push the panic button.


I do have to agree with you.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7465
10/07/2012 12:43 PMPosted by Bigburgandy
I dont know what you're talking about i dont have pvp gear and i dominate everything and im a death knight.


10/07/2012 12:43 PMPosted by Bigburgandy
I dont know what you're talking about i dont have pvp gear and i dominate everything and im a death knight.


......? This doesn't even make sense in this thread lol.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7960
While I feel that you have some very valid concerns I think you need to clean up your post a bit. It's very hard to understand.

Also, can you clarify some things. When you say DPS is bad do you mean burst? Or are you saying you can't get enough DPS on a target because you can't stick to them?

Also, try not to make overreaching statements like "Every spec of monk is terrible" when it sounds like you only have experience as Windwalker and provide absolutely zero context as to whether Brewmaster or Mistweaver is bad.
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Contrary to popular belief, we do have more than 1 spec currently, so I would completely disagree with worst class ever... Brew Master can make for a pretty dirty flag carrier with it's mobility, and if I was a blizzard dev, I would be hotfix nerfing mistweavers ability to spam healing sphere at their own feet (ie healing themselves for 30-32k/sec without hardcasting anything that can get you kicked), because it's rather stupid how many players I can tank as a MW without any pvp gear.

Since you address WW specifically, and I also have a full set for that (wasted all my honor on it before realizing how pathetic it is, compared to broken/immortal MW), I'll comment on your specific WW points:

-Stuns, and missing via range: Agreed with this mostly.... these abilities are really weird sometimes, and ill get a stun but be completely out of melee range to actually hit someone with the server latency, which is pretty crippling. FoF is just a horrible mechanic, and a really half assed version of kidney... I can't think of a single person who finds anything positive about FoF, for any type of gameplay..... The damage it does has no burst, and it's extremely easy to tag a second target and gimp the damage on your target even further.

-Charge (or lack of): Flying serpent kick is better than charge, if you can aim.. My only complaint about this ability is that Blizzard's peice of !@#$ servers sometimes let you drop the aoe snare on top of someone's face (on your screen) and completely miss them. Actually I do have another complaint, frequently (but not consistently) my FSK will cancel itself mid flight (and I don't just mean from being hit with roots/ccs).... Maybe 4x in a full days worth of pvp, I'll hit it, and then just randomlly stop flying without reason.

-DPS cooldowns: Tiger's brew, Xuen, chi brew. Even so, you wouldn't be the first spec, as Shadow priests currently do not have any dps cooldowns of any kind (dark-archangel was removed from shadow).... That said, WW also doesn't have much burst so even when you do use your abilities, it can be kinda meh.

-Touch of Death: Glyphed, or unglyphed this ability is worthless for two reasons: 1)It has activation lag.... A player hits 10%, and your client/his client/blizzard all have to have a sit down and discuss that he is indeed at 10%, and OK to be executed... By the time the game figures its %^-* out, the player is either dead, or under 5% (and one attack from dead. 2)If you can get any class to under 10%, as a class without burst, you are also already going to land the kill 95% of the time.... It's a complete waste of chi/glyphslot, a complete waste of a setbonus, and a sorry !@# excuse for a pvp execute.

As far as WW viability goes: In bg's we can do fine, and in Arena's I think we should be OK, however, there is very little on the class that really would make me WANT a dps monk, if a warrior/rogue/dk was avail... In RBG's, the only role I can even remotely picture a dps monk having, is as an offspec for a brewmaster-flag carrier/tank, on the bgs that he isn't tanking.

EDIT: Should also mention you don't need leg sweep for a 2nd stun, when the range'd paralysis is arguably better for arenas anyhow (a place you won't have derps constantly breaking the effect)..

Also, If I was to "fix" the 3 abilities I complained about.

-FoF: Move all of it's damage to the end of the stun, in one burst, and on the selected target... Just fixed monk's lack of burst, and FoF being garbage, as well as giving it a potential way to be countered.

-Touch of Death: Turn this ability into a melee only version of shadow word: death. (ie a 20% execute ability, that does damage instead of an instant kill, on a low cd)

^Both of those two changes, would more or less fix WW, I think. I'd also like to address their goddaweful self healing, and lack of AP--->spellpower conversion, but I'm not sure it would be possible without making us very overpowered.

As far as healing sphere spam is concerned, for MW: Add a 1-2 second cd on it.
Edited by Drosul on 10/7/2012 1:06 PM PDT
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90 Undead Monk
6850
posted by a guy dumb enough to use a proc trinket lol.
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90 Human Monk
9295
I'm in 4/5 dread 1/5 malev with contenders off pieces and having no issues at all as a windwalker in pvp.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7465
Gear doesn't make you automatically good. I already see things wrong with a lot of things. No tiger's lust, Jade wind instead of Xuen(seriously?). No reforges

If you seriously can't use FSK without it being auto target, then it's you, not the ability. People need to stop crying cause they can't hit two buttons to Gladiator.

Just cause you wasted the time to go 1-90 instead of RaFing doesn't make you an expert on the class. Like I said, I found things wrong already.

Best to just shut your mouth and either wait for some fixes or learn to play better instead of whining every minute.


You're PvE everything you just said buzzed by me.
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90 Draenei Monk
13200
Figure I'd say this first: Also leveled 1-90, have been running BGs as WW and started capping conquest in 2s as well.

Obviously my insights are based on my experience, but as yours seem to be based on your own, I figure we're on an even field as far as discussion is concerned.

10/07/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Kwaendo
* FIRST: {{STUNS}}


Not... exactly sure what you're saying here? Rogue stuns are melee (0-5 yards-ish) so with 2-piece especially FoF should stun them if they're in range to stun you.

If your complaint is about Leg Sweep... That I can see. I haven't used it myself in pvp, largely because of the complaints I hear about it being completely unreliable.

However, we do have 2 other CC options in that tree, one being a ranged, frontal stun, the other giving paralysis range. Both are likely better options in PvP.

10/07/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Kwaendo
*SECOND: {{CHARGE}}


I do miss Clash as WW, but I don't think taking it from BM is the right choice. It's a great tanking tool for trash mobs -especially packs with casters- and the aoe stun might be just a tad too much in PvP.

I'd much rather see a re-worked glyph of FsK that makes it a targeted ability. That way they fix the current, buggy glyph, and give WW an actual targeted 'charge' for those who want it.

10/07/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Kwaendo
*THIRD: {{DPS}}


Xuen called, wanted to say hi. He's been pretty bored lately, said you weren't calling on him enough in BGs.

That aside, no, we don't have 'many' offensive CDs, and don't have much in the way of burst. But our sustained damage is pretty strong from what I've experienced.

On the topic of defensive CDs... Touch of Karma is kinda OP if used well. Fortifying Brew is nice... and did you forget our 75 tier? Diffuse Magic? Dampen Harm? Both solid defensive CDs as well.

10/07/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Kwaendo
*FINALLY: {{Touch of Death}}


Your complaint here is... you want Touch of Death usable on players baseline, rather than gaining it from 4-piece?

I suppose I can see that, just tack on the "only works against players under 10% health" to the base ability. But what would our 4-piece be, then? Reduce the CD of expel harm by ~2-3 seconds, maybe?

...Actually, I would like that...
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90 Pandaren Monk
12020

You're PvE everything you just said buzzed by me.


Says the Glad....oh wait, not even 2200 on your account. So everything you said buzzed right by me.
Edited by Chilarity on 10/7/2012 1:07 PM PDT
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90 Human Monk
9295
You can't enjoy both aspects of the game? Also you're trashing a PvE player yet you're the one that sucks in PvP. Don't hate the class you have no idea how to play.
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90 Pandaren Monk
4320
Tiger's Brew is funny. Everyone thinks this CD is awesome. But, you know what? It's really not a 'boost' to the class at all. It's just another CD that you absolutely MUST use all the time if you hope to have even a chance at putting out significant DPS--and even then, most other classes are going to roll right past you on the DPS meters regardless--only they'll do it with little or no effort.

I don't understand why Blizzard insists on making EVERYTHING with this freakin' class be triggered by an ability. Not only do you have to 'jab jab jab' like a fool, but you have to use CD after CD after CD, every two seconds, in every fight, if you want to be competitive at all. The only passives this class gets are minor defensive abilities that compensate for your leather armor in melee. Everything else is just mind-numbing, pathetically-designed, un-fun, work.

You already have to manage the class's horridly-designed chi mechanics, and mash buttons like a rabid monkey in rubber room, but if you want to have even average survivability or DPS output, you also have to somehow work a dozen different cool downs into your lame, Chi-building 'jab jab jab' routine. It's, easily, the worst designed class I've seen in this game since Beta back in 2004.
Edited by Yaoshin on 10/7/2012 1:08 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7465
10/07/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Apathyxo
I'm in 4/5 dread 1/5 malev with contenders off pieces and having no issues at all as a windwalker in pvp.


BGs im not having a problem in arenas i am.

Contrary to popular belief, we do have more than 1 spec currently, so I would completely disagree with worst class ever... Brew Master can make for a pretty dirty flag carrier with it's mobility, and if I was a blizzard dev, I would be hotfix nerfing mistweavers ability to spam healing sphere at their own feet (ie healing themselves for 30-32k/sec without hardcasting anything that can get you kicked), because it's rather stupid how many players I can tank as a MW without any pvp gear.

Since you address WW specifically, and I also have a full set for that (wasted all my honor on it before realizing how pathetic it is, compared to broken/immortal MW), I'll comment on your specific WW points:

-Stuns, and missing via range: Agreed with this mostly.... these abilities are really weird sometimes, and ill get a stun but be completely out of melee range to actually hit someone with the server latency, which is pretty crippling. FoF is just a horrible mechanic, and a really half assed version of kidney... I can't think of a single person who finds anything positive about FoF, for any type of gameplay..... The damage it does has no burst, and it's extremely easy to tag a second target and gimp the damage on your target even further.

-Charge (or lack of): Flying serpent kick is better than charge, if you can aim.. My only complaint about this ability is that Blizzard's peice of !@#$ servers sometimes let you drop the aoe snare on top of someone's face (on your screen) and completely miss them. Actually I do have another complaint, frequently (but not consistently) my FSK will cancel itself mid flight (and I don't just mean from being hit with roots/ccs).... Maybe 4x in a full days worth of pvp, I'll hit it, and then just randomlly stop flying without reason.

-DPS cooldowns: Tiger's brew, Xuen, chi brew. Even so, you wouldn't be the first spec, as Shadow priests currently do not have any dps cooldowns of any kind (dark-archangel was removed from shadow).... That said, WW also doesn't have much burst so even when you do use your abilities, it can be kinda meh.

-Touch of Death: Glyphed, or unglyphed this ability is worthless for two reasons: 1)It has activation lag.... A player hits 10%, and your client/his client/blizzard all have to have a sit down and discuss that he is indeed at 10%, and OK to be executed... By the time the game figures its %^-* out, the player is either dead, or under 5% (and one attack from dead. 2)If you can get any class to under 10%, as a class without burst, you are also already going to land the kill 95% of the time.... It's a complete waste of chi/glyphslot, a complete waste of a setbonus, and a sorry !@# excuse for a pvp execute.

As far as WW viability goes: In bg's we can do fine, and in Arena's I think we should be OK, however, there is very little on the class that really would make me WANT a dps monk, if a warrior/rogue/dk was avail... In RBG's, the only role I can even remotely picture a dps monk having, is as an offspec for a brewmaster-flag carrier/tank, on the bgs that he isn't tanking.

EDIT: Should also mention you don't need leg sweep for a 2nd stun, when the range'd paralysis is arguably better for arenas anyhow (a place you won't have derps constantly breaking the effect)..

Also, If I was to "fix" the 3 abilities I complained about.

-FoF: Move all of it's damage to the end of the stun, in one burst, and on the selected target... Just fixed monk's lack of burst, and FoF being garbage, as well as giving it a potential way to be countered.

-Touch of Death: Turn this ability into a melee only version of shadow word: death. (ie a 20% execute ability, that does damage instead of an instant kill, on a low cd)

^Both of those two changes, would more or less fix WW, I think. I'd also like to address their goddaweful self healing, and lack of AP--->spellpower conversion, but I'm not sure it would be possible without making us very overpowered.

As far as healing sphere spam is concerned, for MW: Add a 1-2 second cd on it.


Thank's for the feedback man i appreciate it.
Edited by Kwaendo on 10/7/2012 1:25 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Monk
7465
Tiger's Brew is funny. Everyone thinks this CD is awesome. But, you know what? It's really not a 'boost' to the class at all. It's just another CD that you absolutely MUST use all the time if you hope to have even a chance at putting out significant DPS--and even then, most other classes are going to roll right past you on the DPS meters regardless--only they'll do it with little or no effort.

I don't understand why Blizzard insists on making EVERYTHING with this freakin' class be triggered by an ability. Not only do you have to 'jab jab jab' like a fool, but you have to use CD after CD after CD, every two seconds, in every fight, if you want to be competitive at all. The only passives this class gets are minor defensive abilities that compensate for your leather armor in melee. Everything else is just mind-numbing, pathetically-designed, un-fun, work.

You already have to manage the class's horridly-designed chi mechanics, and mash buttons like a rabid monkey in rubber room, but if you want to have even average survivability or DPS output, you also have to somehow work a dozen different cool downs into your lame, Chi-building 'jab jab jab' routine. It's, easily, the worst designed class I've seen in this game since Beta back in 2004.


I agree.
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