Topic Problems with Priests: Personal Logs
Edited by Tiriél on 10/7/12 12:54 PM (PDT)
In an effort not to derail Jilu's other thread, I am posting this one in tandem with her thread. Whereas her thread will be about personal impressions, I would like for people here to post personal logs of their experiences in raiding so far. We'll use the same format, just add logs at the end. Here's the format:
Spec: Discipline or Holy
Content: Raid name, Raid Size
Healing roster: Priest + Shaman/Monk/Paladin/Druid/Priest
Observations: A summary of your observations during the encounter
Concerns: A summary of your concerns with regard to your observations
Logs: Personal logs from the encounter (screenshot links are welcome if your guild does not parse with WoL)
Edited to Add: Math IS welcome here! Analyze the logs, if that's what you want to do!
Content: Stone Guard, 10 man
Healing Roster: Holy Paladin, Resto Druid, Me
Observations: Mana feels EXTREMELY tight on this fight. We got Jade, Amethyst, and Jasper, so we had pools all over the floor. Tank damage was fairly extreme. I ran OOM several times. I felt that I had the power to heal things, but that my mana simply couldn't keep up with my spells. I used Mindbender on CD, Hymn of Hope, and Arcane Torrent on CD. We did die a few times to a lack of healing, but it was an issue where all the healers were OOM (generally, I had been OOM far longer than the others).
Concerns: Mana. It seems that any time there is hard incoming damage, I simply can't keep up. I try to save Cascade for times we really need it, due to the high cost, but with us being a 10 man, it often feels like a waste.
Content: Feng the Accursed, 10 man
Healing Roster: Holy Paladin, Resto Druid, me
Observations: My mana directly depends on RNG in this fight. If the boss casts his lightning fists when he's supposed to (he seemed to not be casting it AT ALL at points, or the Druid would dodge the cast and yeah...) then we're able to interrupt the Epicenter several times. However, if we're not, my mana tanks before the second phase. We had a lot of trouble with P2, due to people not dropping fire where they should and the tank having trouble with the nullification bubble (which seems to bug out at times and not work at all, even when it's off CD when it's used). On our longest attempts, I was hard OOM by the third phase, having used Mindbender on CD, Arcane Torrent on CD, Hymn of Hope, and a Master Mana Potion. My Divine Hymn had a less than 10% overheal on this fight. Lightspring Renew seemed to be an absolute must have - I'm convinced it saved the raid several times when I simply couldn't get to everyone at once. Lightspring was often used up before the CD came up again.
Concerns: Mana. Mana. Mana. I'm starving for mana. Even using my CDs to their best ability, it feels like I'm just struggling for mana on this fight.
Our longest attempts:
6:22 secs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lpcszbacca7863cs/sum/healingDone/?s=8138&e=8521
7:05 secs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lpcszbacca7863cs/sum/healingDone/?s=8856&e=9282
6:32 secs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lpcszbacca7863cs/sum/healingDone/?s=17038&e=17431
As an aside, I will be trying Disc tonight on Feng. I'm terrified to do so, because of how bad my AOE healing was in 5 mans, but I am going to try it. I'll update this with my observations then.
Edited by Advanced on 10/7/12 12:55 PM (PDT)
To all people contributing to this thread: Please do not forget to like the post to get it higher ranked and more visible.
I really think it will provide tons of real-life empirical data for the dev's.
The more PERSONAL logs, the better.
Logs aren't math, but will provide data showing what is happening on your end.
Edited by Maharei on 10/7/12 2:11 PM (PDT)
A quick note - I'm not particularly proud of these logs and had messed up quite a bit, but I think personal logs act as an excellent reference, so here we go! (Middle of the road progression guild, no prior beta experience)
Content: Stone Guard, 10 man
Healing Roster: Holy Paladin, Resto Shaman, Me
Observations: Echoing the issues with mana here. I had the hardest time with it on this fight out of the 4 I've worked on. We had Jasper, Amethyst and and Jade and the raid chose not to break chains so we did a buddy system and moved with one another (not sure why). Because of this, there was an extra amount of movement with trying to stay stacked with your partner for the majority of the encounter.
As our raid was still learning and we had a messy kill, I felt like overloads were still at times...hard to predict and that I didn't get as much use of Spirit Shell and Barrier as I would of liked.
Concerns: Mana was a real issue for me on this one, I felt like I was having to manage too much for little gain. Although across the board our performances were rather sloppy, as disc I felt that my toolbox was a bit lacking on this heavy movement/dyslexic like spreading that ended up happening within the group.
Kill Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2dut5ytxv6q9k8li/sum/healingDone/?s=7104&e=7491
Content: Feng the Accursed, 10 man
Healing Roster: Holy Paladin, Resto Shaman, me
Logs (Longest Attempts):http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-2dut5ytxv6q9k8li/sum/healingDone/?s=12638&e=13105
I have no kill logs for Feng as WoL was acting up that night, however the logs were looking MUCH better that night.
Observations: Epicenter and Draw Flame is predictable enough to where I felt comfortable to DA and SS. However this fight became progressively harder when Epicenter wasn't being interrupted and on attempts where the tanks weren't on the ball with their abilities I had a hard time keeping mana and healing in check.
Concerns: Healing output...on earlier attempts when Epicenters weren't being stunned, and when draw flame wasn't being barriered so much I felt very weak compared to my shaman and paladin counter part. I also felt more mana constraints between the 3 of us. I thought this fight would be a decent benchmark for how much healing I could pump out and ended up calling the night disappointing myself. The night we downed the encounter I felt far more in control, but I think that directly contributed to good RNG.
Content: Gara'jal the Spiritbinder, 10 man
Healing Roster: Resto Shaman, Me
Kill Log: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ahtopb4ujtz7ibox/sum/healingDone/?s=9024&e=9374
Observations: I didn't consider this much of a healing fight and mostly resting on the shoulders of our DPSers. We were having a hard time with the enrage timer so we dropped to 2 healers from 3. On our kill, I stopped healing for the most part near the end to help DPS him - we killed the boss with 10 seconds remaining. The spirit realm more or less made mana a non-issue without horrible RNG.
Concerns:I had a very difficult time keeping people up at times...however I contributed that towards too many adds being alive in the spirit realm. To be honest, I have few concerns on this fight other than uping my own performance as usual. My mana CDs were up between spirit realm so I had no issues with mana this encounter.
Content: The Spirit Kings, 10 man
Healing Roster: Resto Shaman, me
Logs (Longest Attempts):http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ahtopb4ujtz7ibox/sum/healingDone/?s=15700&e=16213
Observations: I wish I had access to both Divine Star and Cascade here as disc. I feel like holy would be more inept for most of the encounters I've come across for the exception of Gara'jal. Mana was not an issue here, but I do feel that SS and DA can be a bit broken on parts of this fight (Madness). I shielded the tank and those pinned with an arrow or getting a little too close to an add they were kiting. The range and movement was sometimes a factor for us as the group would split sometimes during marching orders.
Concerns: Again another fight where I think holy would have faired better. Spirit Shell and DA works wonderfully at times but also seems useless during others. Overall, not an incredibly intense fight as a healer so I had little mana problems.
Edited by Maharei on 10/7/12 2:02 PM (PDT)
My experience overall: I feel like I'm not bringing down the raid by any means, but I do feel underwhelmed at times. Spirit Shell with attonement and stacking DA while being a mana !@#$ feels almost like it's TOO much for the gain I've been getting. When the raid dips low, I simply cannot match the healing output of our resto shaman even on a good day. And my spell choices feel far less forgiving.
I have a lot to work on and am excited for the release of LFR. It really gives me an avenue to tidy up my reaction times, CDs and spell usage. But for a spec that really shines with coming into an encounter with a really proactive healing attitude, I just feel underwhelmed compared to other healers at similar skill levels.
Quick note on Halo....I love the idea, but it hasn't worked out too well in practice compared to Cascade and Divine Star so far :/
A quick note - I'm not particularly proud of these logs and had messed up quite a bit, but I think personal logs act as an excellent reference, so here we go! (Middle of the road progression guild)
Gonna preface mine with this as well. I made a lot of mistakes especially on Feng. Poor positional placement of Halo, using Spirit Shell and having it overheal due to Phase transitions, needing to Smite a lot because our DPS were low.
I felt that personally we should have two healed this fight to begin with for me to get an actual idea of what we're capable of. Mana was tight, I used cooldowns actively but overlapped AA/SS a couple times accidentally. I feel our Shaman would have mercilessly destroyed me if the Druid wasn't there. Prayer of Healing seemed like the only viable choice 99% of the time, even if only 3 people were injured in a party. I feel there's nothing to cope with incidental damage as Disc except for Atonement or Renew, both of which are pretty lacking.
How's this... both Holy and Disc in the same fight! We spent Wednesday night not logging, and then I thought to log it after the other priest and I had some talks about Disc.
Disclaimer: All of us were undergeared. We didn't expect to get through this fight. We just wanted to get two nights of learning the mechanics as a way to psych people up to push through and gear up. So we three healed. Attempt #3 we got the guardians to 1% health. I was amazed that we managed to get that close. Amethyst Pools were the main problem for us. The chains get easier every time, but the pool movement mixed with the chains can cause issues. We probably need to 2 heal this fight for the extra DPS... that would shorten the fight to a length were our healing mana spent can run out earlier.
Spec: Discipline and Holy
Content: Stone Guardians, 10 Man
Healing roster: Holy Priest + Disc Priest + Resto Druid
Observations (Holy): Lightspring is ridiculously awesome for progression where people are spending a lot of time under 50% health. I was absolutely shocked at how well it did. I love healing in Serenity, and I was completely pleased that I could do so with FDCL. This was the style I loved about leveling and 5 mans, and it really seemed to keep up. I am also thrilled that I can, if need be, die and spend 25 minutes as a Val'kyr. I love that. All in all, I felt like Holy fit my playstyle more than it's even been before.
Concerns (Holy): There were a number of times when I wanted to flip to Sanctuary Chakra, but I just felt that it was too dangerous. Cascade is a nice ability since we're spread out, but the mana cost of it is hard to justify casting it with any regularity. Halo may have been better due to the fact that I was typically in the center with our melee heavy group and tanks on the outer rims. I really miss a shorter cool down on Serenity, and really felt that Renew refreshing was critical to mana management. But this hasn't ever been what Holy has been about, so I keep wondering if I'm doing it anti-class design.
Observations (Disc): He just couldn't keep up. I think his spirit was too low and he was more geared for Shadow reforged into Spirit. His spell selection was much better than the previous night's attempts, but he kept saying how hard of a time he was having. If we get a different healer in and he can go shadow, I'll probably try Disc to see if I can do any better.
Concerns (Disc): If you're going to use Penance for DPS / Atonement on this fight, can you use it on the solo Guardian or will the 90% damage reduction reduction cause the Atonement Heal to also be reduced by 90%? I guess there's where I struggle... if at PvP the Penance is reduced by PvP resilience, shouldn't the Atonement heal be boosted by your PvP Power and not damage done = atonement heal? This can really add a layer of difficulty for a boss that takes reduced Holy or Magic Damage, if you're trying to maintain a healing output. That and Disc just feels 1000x harder and very gear dependent. I'm not sure how to best reforge.
Download the addon HaloPro. It has increased my efficiency quite a bit with Halo. It's customizable in size and location too, so it's pretty easy to fit into your UI.
All my breakdowns and logs are here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794980143
Videos with my commentary on strategies and spell choices are there to see as well.
Spec: Holy (10 man)
Roster: Resto Shaman, Holy Priest
Stone Guards: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/epeq1vbahbnas8ot/sum/healingDone/?s=4251&e=4574#Crzed
Elegon: Longer attempts
Observations: No real complaints for holy as of first week of normals. My mana seems to be just as stable as my shaman healing partner's. I can't really relate to other priests being benched, although I do admit I much prefer holy's throughput currently when 2-healing content. I also feel that maximizing priest throughput is often somewhat reliant on having a say to the structure/tactics of one's raid group (arranging parties, raid positioning, loose healing assignments)
Complaints: My complaints lie mainly with disc. I have found that the mental effort required to balance the sheer number of cd's, some of which should not be overlapped, as disc to achieve average throughput is somewhat disenchanting. This was also one of the larger complaints from beta/end of cata which I'm a bit disappointed made it to live. Having the understanding that utilizing AA for burst rather than on cd is preferable has helped to untangle this cd-based nightmare to some extent, but I have just found holy to be superior and more fun in most situations (I am not at all saying disc is useless). However, this could all change as we hopefully begin to move into heroics soon.
I also see a lot of posts arguing that the absence of an equal ratio of priests to other healers in the top rankings of WoL is indicative of priests being underpowered. While it may be concerning and worth looking into, remember that being a viable healer is not always about quantity. Much like a vector, healing is often as much about direction as it is magnitude. Our toolkit is large and ideas that work on some fights/strategies won't necessarily be best for others. I don't want to come off as preachy, I just really can't agree to the magnitude to which many priests feel we are behind other healers.
Awesome, thank you. I just uploaded it, couldn't quite test it out on Spirit Kings but looks like an excellent addon.
No logs for our Kings kill tonight I'm afraid (something I look forward to reviewing too!), was an off night with a quick kill and forgot to run logs. However my thoughts are about the same as our attempts earlier. About half the fight I felt great as disc, the other I thought would have been handled better as holy. Overall though, not particularly challenging in the healing department.
Edited by Tiriél on 10/7/12 10:19 PM (PDT)
Content: Feng the Accursed, 10-man
Healing roster: Priest + Druid & Paladin
Observations: Ultimately decided to go with Disc for this fight for both testing purposes, and because we were having a lot of tank damage (and we needed some extra DPS to push from P2 to 3). I often felt overwhelmed by the incoming damage, especially when I had to move repeatedly (I had the bad luck to get the flame debuff three times in a row). This seemed, to me, mostly a tanking fight, but mistakes by tanks or DPS really increased the burden on the healers. Mana was tight but doable.
Concerns: I felt overwhelmed by incoming damage. PoH was so slow, and it seemed to heal for almost nothing. I wasn't able to really make a lot of use of Spirit Shell (mainly due to things um..not going the way they were supposed to!). I felt like I wasn't really mitigating much damage, and I felt like if I used a single CD wrong, I was really harming the raid. It was stressful, to say the least. I did 10k+ less as Disc than I did as Holy in the same encounter.
Content: Gara'jal the Spiritbinder, 10-man
Healing roster: Priest + Paladin (with some attempts with a Resto Druid as a third healer)
Observations: This fight is, of course, a DPS race. It's also got quite a bit of RNG (for instance, we would often get the same healer with Voodoo Doll multiple times). We started out with three healers, but dropped to two because we couldn't make the enrage timer. The damage towards the end was pretty near to unhealable, and mana was very tight if the RNG gods didn't favor us. I did do a few pulls with me as Disc, but ultimately chose to stay Holy because I simply could not keep the raid alive as Disc.
Concerns: RNG meant that mana was either not an issue, or I was so OOM I couldn't cast any spells. I felt like my toolkit just didn't really work for the encounter. PoH was, again, far too long to cast, and healed for very little. Because we were never 100% sure who would be going into the Spirit world, I often would have one group with 2 people in the world with me, and the other group with one, making it difficult to PoH effectively. All of my other heals were on CD constantly. The limitations of PoH really showed when there were people missing out of groups. I also felt like I had to resort to flash heal to hope to keep anyone alive towards the end. I felt like a very bad healer.
I'm posting all of our 6 minute logs with this one:
Content: Gara'jal the Spiritbinder, 10-man
Healing roster: Priest + Paladin
Observations: RNG is really annoying on this fight. Because of the RNG, mana still matters when I guess for most classes it doesn't? I found myself Divine Hymning when damage got out of control. My highest heal on this fight was Binding Heal, and at times I felt like it, and Divine Star, were the only "viable" heals I could cast. The buff made Holy Word: Sanctuary much beefier, but Circle of Healing seemed to barely move bars. I didn't feel that PoH was a very viable heal on this fight. Divine Star, while on a CD, seemed to produce more visible results.
Concerns: If RNG kicks me in the shins, I have no mana. There's no way around this. I simply can't keep up with the healing requirements towards the end of the fight. All I felt I could do was spam Binding Heal since I was nearly always a Voodoo Doll. I felt inadquate for the fight itself.
Logs: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-u190u6wa2g0utgvc/sum/healingDone/ (Please bear in mind that I was the person logging, therefore the healing is horribly skewed for my Paladin healing partner.)
Edited by Bellum on 10/8/12 10:33 PM (PDT)
No source or name of the author/name of the guild...
Are you suggesting that you would disagree with the opinion stated in that image simply because you do not know the name of the guild that created it? Any logical person can see the truth in what was said if they have reasonable knowledge of the Garajal encounter.