Problems with Priests: Personal Logs

85 Night Elf Druid
0
10/09/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Avàlyne
I understand some of the points your guild has mad,e


I'm not affiliated with healerchat, I just happen to be on their side ;)

10/09/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Avàlyne
Many priests are coming to the forums because they are frustrated right now, and when a person is already frustrated and all they see are posts are about how they're fine, its going to create a bad environment.


First off, I'd like to remind you that no one is saying priests are fine, we're simply saying you don't have enough data yet to conclude that they're broken. This is something most of us have stated numerous times, to be met by deaf ears.

Second off, it absolutely does not create a bad environment. What creates a bad environment is when the posters who think priests have a problem and the posters who think they're fine stop listening to each other, and turn every thread on the issue into a war zone.

Third off, what would you have me tell them? What if priests actually are fine, and all that stands between the disgruntled posters and raid viability is a paradigm shift? Are you saying you'd expect me to, in that position, agree with frustrated posters that priests are broken just to appease them?

10/09/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Avàlyne
I just fail to see what you're trying to accomplish


We just want you to wait another week. That's literally all we've ever been asking.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Can y'all please take your discussion to another thread?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9515
Maybe i am completely wrong and was told i was wrong in another thread but looking at this log the priest cast Heal twice. So his cheap spell was used twice. PoH was the top heal and a mana guzzeler.

Kaels cast HL 73 times.

Why would the priest not have his mana drop like a rock? If all i do is cast HR or CH i would be dry in one minute. On one fight i cast 65 healing waves and on another i cast 105. Did i do that because it was the thing that would do the most healing or the thing that would let me contuinue healing throughout the encounter?

While I'm not going to try to defend this priest's spell selection in its entirety - I, personally, would have cast far fewer non-Rapture PWS, used Holy Fire and offensive Penance, used AA at least 4 or 5 times, and probably been more careful about my PoH timing/targeting - this particular criticism is off the mark. PoH is Disc's most efficient spell, and Heal is badbadbadbad.

To use this particular log as an example of why:

The priest cast PoH approximately 42 times, by my count, outside of Spirit Shell, at a cost of 567,000 mana. The spell did 3,127,176 effective healing and generated a total of approximately 2,200,000 effective Divine Aegis (subtracting the approximate DA from crits of other spells, of which there weren't many), for a total of about 5.3 million effective healing.

The same amount of mana could have been used to cast Heal almost exactly 100 times. If he had managed zero overhealing, those Heals would have done 3,000,000 healing if none of them crit; his stats give him a roughly 15% crit rate in a raid, but he was actually running closer to 19%, so using the 19% figure and the fact that a Disc crit has a roughy 280% multiplier, (.81 + .19 * 2.8) * 3 million gives an expected output of about 4 million healing.

Basically, using PoH badly at 50% overheal does about 30% more effective healing than spending the same amount of mana using Heal perfectly at 0 overheal. Using Heal to conserve mana as Disc is like shooting yourself in the foot to make yourself run faster.

(note: the fact that he would have been maintaining Grace on some targets would have partially closed that gap, but only partially. If half his Heals were affected by 3 stacks of Grace, or equivalent, he would have been able to gain about 15% over that 4 million figure - still behind PoH, still assuming zero overhealing on the Heals. The only way to close the gap entirely would be to only Heal targets with 3 stacks of Grace, which isn't realistic when you're trying to substitute for an AoE heal.)
Edited by Kaeladin on 10/9/2012 3:23 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9515
To put the above in context, since you were comparing with my paladin's spell selection, and explain why Holy Light is a good spell choice while Heal is not:

I cast 73 Holy Lights at a cost of 551,880 mana (coincidentally, actually, around the same amount of mana the priest spent on non-Spirit Shell PoH).

My HLs did 2,851,052 effective healing as recorded on the log, with 89% effective Beacon transfer and 99% effective 30% mastery on the 2,616,248 raw healing, for a total of about 6 million healing.

So I spent slightly less mana on HL than the priest did on PoH and did somewhat more healing. HL actually works well as an efficient spell, although it obviously gets outstripped by fully-effective use of AoE heals. Heal does not.
Edited by Kaeladin on 10/9/2012 3:22 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9515
I know it sounds stupid of me to ask but would love to see a heal heavy log from a disc with bubbles spread around.

If nothing else you would make me go away.

It would have to be a disc priest in a raid that could afford to carry deadweight. Maybe there's a disc priest in a top guild who's lurking here and willing to demo this on normals after you're done with heroic progression for the week?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11125
LFR is out for people to test things with.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9515
10/09/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Winnifred
LFR is out for people to test things with.

Hm. Tempted to gear my disc spec as best I can and log an LFR where I spam Heal, just for the lulz.

I'd feel bad, though...and probably get kicked for trolling :(
Edited by Kaeladin on 10/9/2012 3:58 PM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
HC
16485
10/09/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Winnifred
LFR is out for people to test things with.


http://i49.tinypic.com/2nkmfeu.png

My test on Feng.
Edited by Sensations on 10/9/2012 4:46 PM PDT
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
This will either 1. Get people saying "nerf shamans", or 2. Prove that LFR should be taken with a grain of salt.
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90 Troll Priest
8590
The damage on LFR is so low that it really makes a tough comparison
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
10/09/2012 05:10 PMPosted by Avàlyne
The damage on LFR is so low that it really makes a tough comparison


I would prefer logs from normal and heroic encounters, but LFR logs, if that's all someone can access, are perfectly acceptable.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/41ccq54ojstnkdzo/sum/healingDone/?s=2479&e=2784#Q%C3%B9ess

I'm not really sure how this made me feel. I was running on fumes, but I should have been at the rate I was using expensive spells. I overhealed a lot and everything felt bad, but I didn't do bad.

I feel confused. :/
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
Jesus Christ, how in the nine thousand hells did your raid kill it that fast?

(I think that might be part of why you did so well. The 5-minute mark was when mana started to get nasty for the not-me healers.)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
That makes perfect sense. Our DK is crazy dps.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10625
Your pally tank too! Ours apparently needs lessons.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
10/09/2012 06:17 PMPosted by Kaels
Your pally tank too! Ours apparently needs lessons.


I think ours does, too. When the Pally tank in my raid took over on Gara'jal, I honestly got scared. The voodoo dolls' health just went nuts.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
10/09/2012 06:17 PMPosted by Kaels
Your pally tank too! Ours apparently needs lessons.


He's a fresh reroll and everything. Has never raided on any spec of Paladin until Vaults. He's doing very well :)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
APM
9650
No exactly proud to say but our blood dk beat me in heals as disc on stone guard 10.
I was constantly oom disc for all fights

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1adecok04u0qtyjx/sum/healingDone/?s=1550&e=1922

feng 10 man again I tried to use SS every time nulification was down with a different CD. I struggled hard with mana on epicenters and drew flames tring to heal everyone up. Regen was really bad had 9k spirit for this encounter.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-byu06web0q8zsljp/sum/healingDone/?s=4508&e=4951

2ond stone guard kill again blood dk barely out healed me had 12.5k spirit felt my self still running low to oom the entire fight had to stop healing several times just to recoup mana

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ifvu0ovifd26cuc7/sum/healingDone/?s=764&e=1166

2nd feng kill. I struggled hard with mana 12.5 spirit almost 19k spell power
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ifvu0ovifd26cuc7/sum/healingDone/?s=7158&e=7645

Dont get me wrong my two crafted items helped and getting more spirits helped. But not enough to help my low regen

Both other healers in these kills had under 9k spirit i had almost 13k when i ate the shrimp spirit food. not to mention the 3k from embroider.

Disc regen is simply horrible. Either lower the cost of the spells our double the effective regen. Its not rocket science.
Edited by Loratabb on 10/10/2012 9:07 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17205
10/09/2012 06:17 PMPosted by Kaels
Your pally tank too! Ours apparently needs lessons.


Yeah, well, my dps was terrible compared to the mage in that parse. Although in my defense, many of the other long, non-kill pulls I was higher. I was never that high though.
Edited by Taymage on 10/10/2012 2:05 PM PDT
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90 Human Priest
16685
Lora, I'm looking at the log where the dk beat you in heals and it's simply because you're casting flash heal 30 times in the encounter and not using penance enough. You're specced mindbender at the moment, but just in case you were specced from darkness comes light, you would not have been casting enough smites or other heals that proc it to justify taking the talent.

Your feng logs are a little better, but again, 10 flash heals on the first week, much better on the second week.

Here's my stone guards spell breakdown for the first week: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/nq41f94zfysjf3gh/details/3/?s=2309&e=2681
I'm not trying to offend, just trying to help.
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