I'm not sure tank balance is quite right

DKs feel better than other tanks right now. Not a ton better, but very noticably better. I can heal a DK tank using a greater percentage of Atonement heals compared to other tanks.

Druids feel a little squishy. Warriors and Paladins somewhere in the middle.

Yes I know small sample size is small and there's a million reasons I could be crazy but in all my heroics running with DK tanks they've been the easiest to heal by a lot and done very strong DPS.

I know there are a bunch of reasons why this could be extraneous observation. I know but right now Death Knight tanks feel a bit ahead of the other tanks to me.
Reply Quote
39 Worgen Warlock
0
Feel has nothing to do with it. Without mathematical evidence and conclusive testing, feel means nothing.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
It could be a lot of things.

1. We have more health than other tanks in order to compensate for having less mitigation. When we're tanking things that simply don't hit that hard, the increase in health is worth vastly more than the reduced mitigation. Taking 90 damage and healing back 15 health on a 550 hit point pool is way better than taking 75 damage on a 450 hit point pool.

2. DKs underwent fairly minimal changes compared to the other tanks. We already HAD the active mitigation system, so the bugs are mostly out of ours and the fine tuning is done.

3. In the same vein as the above, DK players have had a whole expansion to get used to the active mitigation model. If you take the median monk player and median death knight, odds are the DK player is going to be vastly better at fully utilizing her abilities than the monk due to having years, literally, of practice.

4. Heroics don't hit that hard. Death Knights, due to having a static absorb with a fixed minimum that scales with our health, will ALWAYS be the best tank for content that's overgeared. Every time we get that minimum shield (7% of max HP), we're overpowering content in a way that all the other tanks cannot. Because the heroics of this expansion are WAY easier than the Cata ones, we "overgear" them a bit simply by qualifying.

5. The +15% bonus health from the random dungeon finder increases our mitigation, as well as giving us more of a bonus than other tanks due to our vastly better stamina scaling. In a dungeon finder, I have 550k health fully buffed. Throw a flask and food in, and I'm nearly to 600k.

I could go on...
Reply Quote
86 Pandaren Warrior
12100
If only Pandaren could be death knights.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
13240
IF there is a discrepancy, it could largely be attributed to the fact that DKs have been using the active-mitigation model for a long time, and now the other tanks need to play catchup and get used to things. Too early to make any serious calls.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Dks are definitely better for heroics.

We'll see how things go once things hit harder than their shield.
Edited by Toyotafixed on 10/2/2012 2:56 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
Less overheal + DS floor will always make DKs strong in heroic dungeons, and even more so as they gear up.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
7780
10/02/2012 02:36 PMPosted by Fahzhi
IF there is a discrepancy, it could largely be attributed to the fact that DKs have been using the active-mitigation model for a long time, and now the other tanks need to play catchup and get used to things. Too early to make any serious calls.


I would say it's largely on this. The overall concept of our mitigation did not change between Cataclysm and Mists, so we've had ~2 years of practice. While other tanks may have DK alts so they are familiar with the idea, making it work with the other tanks just takes getting used to. And it takes seeing the hardest content to really perfect strategies and to make your style more muscle memory/response based.

I feel that once we get fully into the swing of this tier where more tanks are getting into the normal mode raids and clearing most or all of them, you will see tanks become more familiar and quick with their work, and regardless of gear the knowledge and know-how will be more readily available and more people will be around to help others hammer out the specifics as they learn.
Reply Quote
10/02/2012 04:38 PMPosted by Mýthandu
IF there is a discrepancy, it could largely be attributed to the fact that DKs have been using the active-mitigation model for a long time, and now the other tanks need to play catchup and get used to things. Too early to make any serious calls.


I would say it's largely on this. The overall concept of our mitigation did not change between Cataclysm and Mists, so we've had ~2 years of practice. While other tanks may have DK alts so they are familiar with the idea, making it work with the other tanks just takes getting used to. And it takes seeing the hardest content to really perfect strategies and to make your style more muscle memory/response based.


It's a bigger shift than you mention. As a druid/warrior tank in the past, I'm used to "rage=funtime". Now, "rage=mitigate", since most of my mitigation has always been either passive or so automatic you literally macro'd it into your moves. I knew it was coming, but it's still been ~10 dungeon runs across my tank toons and I haven't quite internalized that I can't just mash HS or Maul whenever I see the little red bar not be empty.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11240
I think it will come in time, when the other tank classes' active mitigation skills are fine tuned. I have found in the meantime that the weapon enchantment colossus helps out a ton for bear tanks anyways. Nice absorb to help with magic and bleed damage (which we can't mitigate very well) and it seems to have a very high proc rate with a very short internal cd.

Also it seems that some healers are better suited to healing certain tanks. When I have run with priests, I tend to use my CDs a lot more to help them out. On the other hand if I have a pally healer I never need to worry about using survival cds except on boss fights. Not to mention they rarely need a mana break. Haven't run into too many druid, shaman or monk healers yet.
Reply Quote
14 Pandaren Monk
5765
10/02/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Rijdot
Feel has nothing to do with it. Without mathematical evidence and conclusive testing, feel means nothing.


OK.

I'm backing up a semi into a crowded parking lot full of cars. I need to back into the loading bay, and there's not a lot of room.

The only thing that stands between my semi and your sedan, is me backing up "by feel". Yes I will get out of the truck and look every now and then, but I'm on a timeline to get this cargo out, and back on the road.

My mirrors are only going to do me so much good. I *have to* rely on "feel".

I'm not saying your statement is wrong. I'm just saying that "feel" has its place.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
17755
My mirrors are only going to do me so much good. I *have to* rely on "feel".

I'm not saying your statement is wrong. I'm just saying that "feel" has its place.


/palmface
Edited by Slashlove on 10/3/2012 12:54 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
9760
Bear is now harder to play so it doesn't surprise me that they seem squishier. I feel (uh oh, there's that word again) like I'm taking more damage now than before but I also feel like I'm contributing much more to my own healing than I was before (of course it's hard to feel a passive ability).
Reply Quote
10/03/2012 01:03 PMPosted by Druimeister
Bear is now harder to play


lol.
Reply Quote
39 Worgen Warlock
0
OK.

I'm backing up a semi into a crowded parking lot full of cars. I need to back into the loading bay, and there's not a lot of room.

The only thing that stands between my semi and your sedan, is me backing up "by feel". Yes I will get out of the truck and look every now and then, but I'm on a timeline to get this cargo out, and back on the road.

My mirrors are only going to do me so much good. I *have to* rely on "feel".

I'm not saying your statement is wrong. I'm just saying that "feel" has its place.


In a game based completely on math, where a mathematical equation determines every possible scenario, no, feel means nothing. When you are comparing X and Y and making a statement about X > Y, you can't say X feels > Y. X is either > Y, or X is not > Y.

The statements about how blood DKs have had longer to play their class and are therefore more skilled are equally silly. No tanking class is very complex or difficult to play. I picked up a blood DK and was playing on an equal level with my paladin the moment the two had similar gear levels. Similarly, particularly for those of us who've had beta, paladins, warriors and druids have had quite some time to get used to their mechanics, and monk players have had some time to get used to theirs as well.

Yes, experience is a factor. No, it is not as large a factor as you think it is. If you're skilled and knowledgeable enough to handle one tanking class's active mitigation you're probably skilled and knowledgeable enough to handle all of them.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
7000
I play both my warrior and dk tanks , and honestly warriors need to learn to use their absorb better and that is all . bleeds damage are ridiculous , happy they lowered it , it was a joke
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7175
DKs aren't as OP as me. Parsed 22k hps on several trashpulls in SM, in TANK SPEC.
Reply Quote
62 Blood Elf Monk
7450
I am currently leveling a monk and a druid tank.

My monk has me pressing a button on every cooldown at level 45.

My druid includes "eat potato chip" in its rotation at level 65.

Funbalanced.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
14765
10/04/2012 08:12 AMPosted by Kadrion
My monk has me pressing a button on every cooldown at level 45.


Oh, really? I might actually want to level my monk then. At level 12, Brewmaster in Ox stance is snoozeville.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]