Monk PVP

90 Human Monk
8785
10/05/2012 03:22 PMPosted by Mistfallen

That could very well be the case, and I'm self-aware enough to accept responsibility for my faults.

But I've been doing everything within my power to make this work. I'm macroed, keybound, and set up. I've been trying to incorporate everything I can from every piece of info I've read. And the only place I can make this work is 1v1. And even then, it's iffy.

If you can help me out, I'm your eager student.


I could help you out, but you don't have the moves yet, and It didn't really start clicking until I started getting full pvp gear


I have a lot of PvP pieces myself, and to players without pvp gear i do well, but to players with PvP gear equal to mine i do significantly less dmg then what they do in return. I"m just curious Mist but when your quoting how well your doing can you actually tells us roughly what kind of gear the players are in that your fighting, and what you're actually doing in the bg.

If i go around just find the weakest person to kill yeah that's not an issue, and i'm not sure if thats what your doing, but in a more competitive aspect premade vs premade or arena it seems we come up short, compared to a lot of other dps classes.
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90 Undead Monk
5945
I'll contribute to this thread. Mistweaver is garbage because it brings nothing to a team. You have 1 !@#$ cc, and a bunch of overly expensive heals.
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90 Undead Warlock
4340
Windwalker is the easiest melee spec to control, if you dont have a friend dispelling you 24/7 you never stay on your target.

Oh and who thought jab hitting for almost no damage was good game design?
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85 Draenei Death Knight
3205
Ok, so I've played Monk for exactly 8 hours. Haha... so far I really like it. Doing PVP between levels 12 and 15 I wasn't so great since I had no decent gear but it was still fun. I did my first dungeon tonight through lvl 15 - 18 (we were all monks tonight incidentally) and we did well.

I know this is all still at the low lvl gameplay but I have to say just starting out it was still enjoyable and I felt like the mechanics for the class weren't too weak or too strong. I'm looking forward to leveling this toon. I think I'm going to like the change of pace.
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Windwalker is the easiest melee spec to control, if you dont have a friend dispelling you 24/7 you never stay on your target.

Oh and who thought jab hitting for almost no damage was good game design?


It is obvious you have only played low level monk.
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90 Human Monk
11830
So after dinging 90 last night bought my self a full 90 crafted pvp set and ran some random BGs with a couple mates they have been 90 for about a week now almost full dreadfull and here were some of the results

http://imgur.com/jHEog

http://imgur.com/kEbeA

http://imgur.com/S4I5m

tho i will say this as i use to be a warrior (2.2k 3s 2.4k rbg last season) we could use some changes to our snare (disable) maybe make it a range snare at least? people say we have roll but roll doesnt always get you to your target like a warriors charge its a straight line roll (duh) and indeed it takes a bit of practice to judge when to roll up to someone attacking you from range.

also dont get so worried about getting up tiger palm buff in BGs just let it happen via free TP procs + theres way to much burst going around to worry about it get use to using Rising sun kicks off CD it does alot of damage and same with Blackout kicks aswell

im still learning lots i played WW monk a fair bit on beta and yet im still learning more things about this class :P stick with it guys it can only get better !
Edited by Shiojii on 10/6/2012 5:05 AM PDT
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86 Blood Elf Priest
11540
The big issues of WW (I'd post on my 90 WW but can't due to a recent server transfer)

-100% base run speed. Even with the 8% boot enchant speed its easy for most classes to kite a WW with the abundance of roots and snares available in game now. Even using Roll, FSK, TL, and nitro boosts, its hard to keep up with most classes.

-ToK being over-mitigated. I've had ToK completely eaten through by a warrior and had it do less than 30k to the warrior, again this is being used up so the buff falls off before the timer wears off due to taking more than 100% of my health in its short duration. This needs to be far less mitigated to be an effective "stay off me" button.

-Disable. It simply needs a range increase. With the base run speed there is no way to keep up with most classes to even try to snare them. I can't say how many times I've ran into the problem of a target being too close to use roll and catch up, and too far to disable.

-Overly weak to CC. WW has the unfortunate pleasure of not only having no passive damage mitigation through effects or armor, but has no easy escape / reset tools either. Roll and FSK would be nice if you couldn't be charged / death gripped / stunned in the middle of them, and it happens more often then you'd think. Honestly any combination of the use of ToK, DH, or DF while stunned would go miles to helping WW survivability.

-FoF, LS, FSK, SFB and any other untargeted / AoE ability. These are really becoming a problem the more I've played on live. I have landed FSK on targets and had them not be debuffed or take damage. The same goes for using LS. I've used it on targets that I was standing on top of and missed due to latency or whatever you want to chalk it up too with non RNG reasons. Even with the added range of 2pc FoF can be terrible to land on any target that isn't rooted previously, and with latency I've had targets simply run out of it take a step move 10-20 yards, then finally take the damage / stun. This is all at my personal 71 ms average so while not stunning, it isn't terrible.

-Controlled burst. More so of a lack there of, WW has no controlled burst, no serious CD's, just hoping each RSK is a crit every eight seconds. As I gear up and people gear up, FoF is totaling less than 100k which under normal circumstances would be a huge number, but due to the channel time makes it pretty easy to heal through or mitigate. Along with a lack of burst there isn't any serious pressure to anyone that pays you any mind.

-Self Healing. This one is very tricky because it can be very situationally amazing or useless. When chaining chi wave and expel harm I can usually float around even with any opposing DPS without their CD's. The second a stun comes into place though WW drops and gets gibbed pretty quickly. I've had massive EH heals of close to 100k at times with my trinket up but those are far and few between. Chi Wave can also generate as much as 120k+ in self healing every eight seconds but its pretty crit dependent and requires a 1v1 situation essentially.
--Honestly WW self healing is extremely powerful when it crits but rather worthless when it doesn't. You could say that about many classes but due to the CD'd nature of WWs self heals it feels even more noticable. To keep up with current burst in the game though (and I admit it is leaning on the side of overpowered a decent ways) I'd almost want to say EH may be better off with a 10 second CD for EH through a WW passive. It would give WW great self healing that would honestly be OP when gear scaled up towards T16 gear PvE/PvP but for now almost feels necessary in the current PvP environment.

-Spear Hand Strike. This is just ridiculous, the cost far exceeds every other classes interrupt compared to theirs either being free or at a lower cost per their resource generation (rogues/warriors). Warriors get nearly the same effect of the silence through glyph of gag order, only without the positional requirement. This not only goes for certain PvP playstyles, but also for PvE, the cost needs to go, either base line (since it was recognized as being cripplingly expensive when it was made free for Brewmasters) or through a glyph that removes the cost and the silence.

-Mastery. This is something that effects both PvE and PvP. The spec is approaching GCD capping by the end of this tier once geared for PvE and it can feel like it in PvP at times. Having an active mastery like WW currently does detracts from the spec and adds mindless APM for the sake of adding them. The damage from these extra BoK's / TPs needs to be reworked either piggybacking (when procced) off normally priced BoK's / TPs or firing rotationally (the latter being the much lesser preferred of the suggested ideas).

EDIT: When it comes to damage done like show in the post above, WW can lead but the problem is that most of it is unnoticable white damage / TS procs that are easily healed through by a classes normal self healing / instant cast hots.
Edited by Reltus on 10/6/2012 6:04 AM PDT
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90 Human Monk
6425
Windwalker pvp
Really need something like a range increase on disable for a few seconds after you roll, or have it so the 10 yard disable aura activates for a few seconds after you roll and snares anyone within its range without needing to snare them first.


Or they could reduce the CD to FSK because its FSK job to do that anyways. Right now, a 25 sec CD is not realistic in PvP where everyone is on the move all the time.
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To those complaining, stop being terrible and go back to your cata mains.
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90 Tauren Druid
6525
theyre great at 1v1. practically unkiteable against ranged, have a long lockdown chain against healers, and a lot of tricks for dealing with melee. this is only my 1-80 experience though.
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90 Human Monk
9590
Windwalker is the easiest melee spec to control, if you dont have a friend dispelling you 24/7 you never stay on your target.

Oh and who thought jab hitting for almost no damage was good game design?


It is obvious you have only played low level monk.


It is obvious you haven't played a monk at 90.
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28 Orc Shaman
350
10/06/2012 08:40 AMPosted by Kitez
practically unkiteable against ranged


Lol?

10/06/2012 08:40 AMPosted by Kitez
have a long lockdown chain against healers


Fists of Fury and potentially Leg Sweep constitute a long lockdown chain?

10/06/2012 08:40 AMPosted by Kitez
a lot of tricks for dealing with melee


Only thing that's remotely close to actuality.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10170
diffuse magic needs to be useable while feared aka it needs to be a fear breaker and a deep freeze breaker. I cant kill a priest for my life with phy fiend and fear every 25 sec u cant stay on them long enough b/c once u break 1 fear ur eating the next and then the priest face rolls u.

touch of karma needs to be energy not chi imo.

Self healing needs to be on par w/ ret pally healing.
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90 Pandaren Monk
2530
Top kills top damage at least 1/3 of the time. I don't have a lot of pvp gear. The class has its flaws but its not bad once you understand the limitations and strengths. You can't charge a flag room alone and use spinning crane kick and expect anything but death to follow. Playing in pvp requires a lot of mobility and the correct talents.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11615
10/05/2012 11:39 PMPosted by Spicybutter
I'll contribute to this thread. Mistweaver is garbage because it brings nothing to a team. You have 1 !@#$ cc, and a bunch of overly expensive heals.

One CC? What?

I have FIVE: Leg Sweep (talent), Paralysis, Quaking Palm (racial), Spear Hand Strike, and Disable.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10575
1900 in 2s and climbing... mistweaver ftw. just started a 3s team as well.. doin prety fancy there as well, 15-5 as of yet.
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90 Human Monk
7930
I can't speak for Brewmaster entirely since I'm not at level cap, but BM feels like it does well against opponents.
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It is obvious you have only played low level monk.


It is obvious you haven't played a monk at 90.


What was your first clue? Typical RAF monk that was handed lvl 90 with no pvp achievements trying to stick up for his friend. Sweet glyphs btw.
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