Bears are too RNG based

90 Tauren Druid
9915
Sorry in advance for posting another QQ thread. I am loving this expansion, I am loving my Druid, and I am loving Bears. Please don't take this too negatively, because it isn't meant to reflect my attitude as a whole.

Our RPS is based on crits and Mangle reset procs, then our primary AM skill is based on Dodge. We are the only class which relies almost entirely on RNG to generate resources, and the only one that is solely reliant on RNG after using our primary AM ability.

Warr and Pally flatly reduce damage, and scale up with damage dealt. DK both heals and mitigates damage in the same AM usage, scaling with their own gear. Monk mitigates damage passively, and actively dumps off the excess over time, scaling with damage (and player skill in balancing that WITH avoidance AM.) Bear's Dodge mechanic scales up with luck, and luck alone. When you dump 60 Rage into a skill, there should not be only a 50/50 chance of it working.

While the RPS randomness is annoying, it isn't game-breaking. Most other tanks also are semi-reliant on procs, and that is okay. However, no other tank has a chance to blow their primary AM and receive no benefit from it whatsoever, partially exempting Monks considering that Shuffle/Purifying Brew are used much more interchangeably than the other AM skills.

Because I don't believe in moaning just to moan, I would like to propose the idea of partially unnerfing Agi to Dodge contribution for bears so that we are no longer far and away the lowest passive avoidance tank in the game. In addition, rework SD to no longer increase Dodge, but to provide a physical damage reduction/absorb scaling with player HP and/or Atk. Giving bears the ability to reduce damage taken through this mechanic will be much more reliable, and put us in a desirable spot compared with tanks who are not taking unpredictable spikes of unmitigated damage.

Looking forward to community response, positive or negative.
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2 Blood Elf Warlock
0
no
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agreed and signed. When we reach over 530 ilvl savage defense might be the best am in the game if our dodge can push 30%-40%, but while we are trying to find a raid spot and our dodge is barely pushing 12% savage defense feels incredibly weak.

I'm being told by my guild to reroll a different tank class.

Also on a side note. Goodluck getting any other comments besides 'you suck' 'you are bad' etc. Lately thats the only reason people ever use these forums. 8/10 posts will have nothing to do with feedback concerning your idea. Case in point is your first commenter...
Edited by Icefalcon on 10/6/2012 2:41 PM PDT
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How does dodging not increase damage mitigation when damage scales up?

Dodging a 200k hit means you avoided 2x the damage as if you dodged a 100k hit.

Sure its RNG, but you do realize we/you have the MOST passive damage reduction in the game (25% against magic, 12% PLUS the highest armor in the game against physical).

Giving an absorb to the overheal would encourage nothing but spamming FR at full health instead of using SD, so no, that's not a wonderful idea at all.

I honestly enjoy healing bears more than I enjoy healing most other classes, other than the ridiculously overpowered blood DKs right now. Many LFD warriors and palis have not adapted well to the AM changes, and monks are hit-or-miss, either they had lots of experience on beta/forums/guides and have a good idea of what to do, or they have none and are by far the squishiest tanks.
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40 Orc Warlock
10460
FR over SD helps alot. At least for me.
Bears have always been about dodging so that will never change and unless they made rolled back SD to what it was in Cata, then I guess everyone with stuck with this playstyle.

anyways.. it helps flush out all the bear tanking craze that everyone picked up in cata!
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
10/05/2012 03:05 PMPosted by Jimmyjames
Warr and Pally flatly reduce damage, and scale up with damage dealt. DK both heals and mitigates damage in the same AM usage, scaling with their own gear.


"Guardians" do scale with gear as well its just not as noticeable as a dk dropping a 500k BS on himself in one gcd.

A few things, for every point of dodge you get your that much closer to taking almost no hits under SD, at the end of cata in my gear forged/gemmed for dodge I was hitting 92% dodge with SD up, which is just insane.

Secondly mastery is a god stat for druids, a flat % increase to armor. That means that druids can now do what all tanks have wanted to do, gem armor. Armor is the #1 thing that increases your EH, and because of this by the end of mop we are once again going to have insanely high EH.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
10/06/2012 04:21 PMPosted by Optysauce
I've popped SD on a boss attacking once per second and I didn't dodge a single attack for the duration. RNG = Bad. flat out reduction = better.

The chances of that happening are less than 1% (actualy 0.8%) and only decrease as the passive Dodge from gear gets better.

Something everyone has to understand is any net buff we receive at this point is going to require a nerf somewhere else. Unless there is substantial evidence that Guardians are having big problems compared to other tank classes (and right now there isn't), don't expect anything to change much.

10/06/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Icefalcon
I'm being told by my guild to reroll a different tank class.

This is a result of one of two things:

1) You are doing it wrong, and your guild is misinterpreting this as you need to change your class.
2) You are doing it right, and your guild is just stupid.
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90 Tauren Druid
13005
This is a result of one of two things:

1) You are doing it wrong, and your guild is misinterpreting this as you need to change your class.
2) You are doing it right, and your guild is just stupid.



This
Something your guild will have to realize is that with the old SD mechanic gone bears are going to be taking spiky damage from time to time and the damage we are taking now is going to be more than later when we have more mastery and thus a lot more armor than the other tanks.

The issue right now at the start of the xpac is your about 50/50 dodge (well 40/60) so SD can be almost completely negated, not to mention outside of zerking and incarnation its fiarly common to hit 3 charges of SD, and with low mastery we are also taking probably a bit more damage then we should on regular melee swings.
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100 Tauren Druid
19200
Bears are fine, we work differently from other tanks, we get our added mitigation via our mastery, think of it as: Savage defense is our block, and mastery is our active mitigation compared to other tanks.. it's just been swapped. Even when dodging nothing, we still can surive the bigget burst of the expansion (Heroic sha of fear), so that should tell you much.
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