Second Wind needs fixed

70 Gnome Rogue
5895
Its too powerful 1v1 and 2v2

Its worthless for 3v3+

Should probably change it back...its just a terrible ability for warriors and the people fighting them. Nobody is happy with it.
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90 Human Hunter
3465
Its too powerful 1v1 and 2v2

Its worthless for 3v3+


I agree with the first part, but check out the top warriors in the (horribly inaccurate but still useful for this point) list of BG9 3s teams:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/bloodlust/3v3

They ALL take Second Wind. I saw one who didn't then noticed he was in pve gear.

GC said that's how they would know if it was OP, if all pvp warriors ended up taking it. Guess what, they are, even in the 3v3 bracket where it's not quite as OP. Just shows how silly OP it is in 1v1 and 2v2 situations.

I saw Reckful on his warrior doing 2s (resto shammy healer) on his livestream against a warrior-holy pally team. They ended up dancing with each other since neither had a chance for a kill. 45 minute waste of time for them and their livestream viewers.

Nerf this at the same time as BM burst and OP hybrid healing are being nerfed.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/6/2012 12:37 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
14640
10/06/2012 12:33 PMPosted by Arrowset
GC said that's how they would know if it was OP, if all pvp warriors ended up taking it. Guess what, they are, even in the 3v3 bracket where it's not quite as OP. Just shows how silly OP it is in 1v1 and 2v2 situations.


Second wind is not OP at all, it does what it's meant to do heal us when we're about to croak. It's not that SQ is OP at all it's also the fact that the other options are horribly stupid, enraged regen costs 60 rage if not enraged.... no warrior ever sits over 40-50 rage in a pvp situation. Impending victory heal is just horrible too, 10% on a 30s CD effectively healing roughly 30k each time it's used, seriously nobody will take these other talents due to how poor of a choice they are.

If you're having trouble killing a warrior when they hit sub 35%, SAVE YOUR CDS FOR THAT POINT INSTEAD OF USING THEM AT THE START.

TL:DR - Warriors only take second wind due to it does what we want it to do and our other options for our ONLY choice of healing are complete and absolute garbage and use your burst CDs when a warrior is sub 40% hp to win.
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90 Worgen Warrior
8735
Its too powerful 1v1 and 2v2

Its worthless for 3v3+


I agree with the first part, but check out the top warriors in the (horribly inaccurate but still useful for this point) list of BG9 3s teams:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/bloodlust/3v3

They ALL take Second Wind. I saw one who didn't then noticed he was in pve gear.

GC said that's how they would know if it was OP, if all pvp warriors ended up taking it. Guess what, they are, even in the 3v3 bracket where it's not quite as OP. Just shows how silly OP it is in 1v1 and 2v2 situations.

I saw Reckful on his warrior doing 2s (resto shammy healer) on his livestream against a warrior-holy pally team. They ended up dancing with each other since neither had a chance for a kill. 45 minute waste of time for them and their livestream viewers.

Nerf this at the same time as BM burst and OP hybrid healing are being nerfed.


That isn't all that GC said. He said that it would either mean the ability is OP OR that the other abilities in the same tier need to be buffed. Fact is the other two talents are practically useless in PVP.

Yeah, Warrior-Holy Pally teams aren't going to die. Holy Pally anything in twos was very hard to kill in Cata as well. PVP isn't balanced around 2's. Yes or no, can two DPS burst down a Warrior's Second Wind ability?
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90 Human Hunter
3465


If you're having trouble killing a warrior when they hit sub 35%, SAVE YOUR CDS FOR THAT POINT INSTEAD OF USING THEM AT THE START.


I'm sure Reckful and Tosan (rank 1 warrior and hunter) didn't think of that.

Last night Tosan couldn't kill a warrior in 2s even with all the OP burst BM has now.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/6/2012 1:28 PM PDT
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90 Human Hunter
3465


That isn't all that GC said. He said that it would either mean the ability is OP OR that the other abilities in the same tier need to be buffed. Fact is the other two talents are practically useless in PVP.


Good, then buff them at the same time as SW is nerfed, as long as they aren't 100% uptime "abilities" that require no conscious effort to use.
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90 Orc Warrior
11685
How exactly do you want Second Wind to be nerfed? You nerf the healing and it's useless, a barely noticeable blip in survivability, or you put it on a cooldown and make it entirely useless. If there's a cooldown on it then it needs to heal for way more. Something like "Second Wind: Whenever you drop below 35% HP you heal for 5% HP/S for X seconds. 1 minute cooldown." You can't just flat nerf Second Wind or put a cooldown on it without completely revamping the ability.
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90 Human Hunter
3465
How exactly do you want Second Wind to be nerfed? You nerf the healing and it's useless, a barely noticeable blip in survivability, or you put it on a cooldown and make it entirely useless. .


Right, because this mindless ability is such a long-standing part of the warrior class, going all the way back to, I dunno, a few months ago.

Just nerf the healing by 1/3, babies will cry about it, real warriors will win regardless. Most warriors will still probably take it at 2% heals per second.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/6/2012 1:49 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
8565
Well here's the thing, for the first time warriors have some real skirmish/smallscale pvp potential when not attatched to a healer like pretty much every other class (ie, some kind of heal or the ability to reset a fight's cd's ect). I don't want to lose that.

However, it is too strong at 35%. It needs some tweaking on how it works exactly but here's the thing....you can't base it's level of power solely on how many pvp warriors take it. The talent layout for arms pvp is nearly cookie cutter atm with MAYBE one talent tier that you can vary. We have a lot of talents that are just not worth taking under any circumstance for PVP. Does that mean you should nerf Piercing Howl, and every other warrior talent that is currently being used? Probably not.

If you look at enraged regen and impending victory, they are pretty much just really trashy for self healing. Even as abilities with cd's their healing is not that great. 10% every 30 seconds? Deary lordy me, and it requires melee? Well sign me up for that fail ability that might out heal a dot!

Does Second Wind need some changes? Yes, along with a lot of warrior talents to make it more about choice and personal preference (ie, changing/buffing some of these worthless talents and some of the glyphs).
Edited by Grux on 10/6/2012 2:15 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
14645
I would take something besides it but the others suck on so many levels.

Impending victory? Heals way to little and is on the GCD and cost rage. THe damage is to small compared to other attacks so it's not even an option there.

Enraged Regeneration? Cost WAY to much rage when not enraged forcing you to use Bezerker Rage leaving you without a fear break or small damage CD.

Second wind? It GIVES me rage when ever I am Snared/Rooted or stunned. I NEVER have to press a button for it and it heals WAY more then the other 2.

IV should be off the CGD or cost no rage. Also needs to heal more. Doable the CD and make it 20%?

ER need TO enrage you, not require it. Shouldn't have a rage cost.

SW? cut the healing in half and make it trigger at 50% or something.

My 2s
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90 Pandaren Warrior
11505
Its too powerful 1v1 and 2v2

Its worthless for 3v3+

Should probably change it back...its just a terrible ability for warriors and the people fighting them. Nobody is happy with it.


Second wind was a complete and total joke talent before. No. Just no. Sorry it takes half a brain to kill a warrior now, and you have to look at your screen while you do so.

I agree others suck, but second wind is still pretty strong.

They could put a cd on it or reduce it a little or something.


Yeah, and make it nigh-worthless like the others. Guess we're just supposed to be the free HK right? Tunnel the warrior and win, so skillful. (Not)
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People are complaining about warriors because they were accustomed to us being weak throughout Cataclysm that it seems like a shock when we don't die as easily as we use to. The truth is that shadow priests and ret pallies can heal for more than sw but no one is crying about them because they didn't suck in the last x-pack. It's all relative.
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90 Human Warrior
10675
10/06/2012 03:06 PMPosted by Positron
second wind is powerful, but the real solution to this should be making the other two options viable. When we have god damn hunters doing 500k healing whenever its pretty stupid to bring up second wind. Never mind hybrid healing, particularly that of ret and shadow.


Honestly second wind in some ways is stronger then ret heals. Shadow has to cast for the stronger heals and ret depends on rng and what you choose. Not saying it's bad at all, but you can be silenced too. Oh wait what do warriors have now?

I'm all for buffing the other talents in that tier for warriors, but second wind is still pretty strong.


I don't buy that a hot will ever be as good as short, or even instant cast significant heal. So I can't accept that ret heals is, in any way, inferior to a hot that won't start until we're mostly dead.

Second wind, I'm telling you, doesn't make that much of a difference. If you see someone living way way too long, it's because their healer is smashing heals in faster than the other guy can smash damage.

You get someone to 35% and make sure their healer isn't smashing heals, a hot won't change the fact that they're dead in 3 gcds barring defensive cds, which would change the picture WITHOUT second wind - in short, second wind won't make much of a difference.

Honestly, I have to scratch my head at people who are asserting that a hot that only operates when you're 3 gcd's away from dying is REALLY going to DRAMATICALLY change the picture. EVERY damage spec out there will smash someone from 35% to dead in a HELLA short time, a hot will not change this fact one iota.
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Honestly, I have to scratch my head at people who are asserting that a hot that only operates when you're 3 gcd's away from dying is REALLY going to DRAMATICALLY change the picture. EVERY damage spec out there will smash someone from 35% to dead in a HELLA short time, a hot will not change this fact one iota.
In those 3 GCDs Second Wind will heal for more than a non-Crit WoG-3 or a non Crit FoL (cast on oneself, seeing as we're looking at self-healing here). So, unless you're letting that Ret just stand there and spam heals on themselves, Second Wind is providing the same healing over that time as a Ret getting a heal off. Now, that Ret might be able to get a WoG-3 and a FoL off, if you've not got any control on them, for double the healing, but then again that Ret might well be stunned and thus not healing themselves at all.

Because Second Wind works even when stunned, feared, hexed, etc., and you never have to find the time to push a button to make it go, it's very strong. It's also a large heal, and with 1s ticks it always does something useful. At L90 it ticks for 9.5-10K per second, and allowing for PvP Resilience that's enough to act as about a 50% damage reduction to a DPS sitting on you, going down if they've got burst cooldowns, obviously. Even if it's only a 25-30% effective reduction to damage intake when someone is bursting on you, that's an incredibly powerful defensive ability, seeing as it's passive and always on whenever you're getting low on health (and it comes on above most spec's execute range).

At the very least it makes that '3-4 GCDs to death' into 4-8 GCDs, and that is huge if you have a healer/off-healer.
Edited by Sharrow on 10/6/2012 7:01 PM PDT
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70 Gnome Rogue
5895
To the people saying the generic 'you are just used to warriors being free kills' crap.

I wouldnt care if it was a monk doing it, It is just ridiculous in 1v1 and 2v2. It is worthless in 3v3, just a LITTLE less worthless than the other talents on that tier.

For gods sake changing it would help everybody except for you 2v2 heroes. I'm sure warriors with half a brain would love to have a better survival cooldown for 3s. Second wind wont do much there.
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76 Blood Elf Priest
2860
Second wind- 2% health every second, below 35% health

Spirit bond- 2% health every two seconds, no health penalty.

Which would you rather have?
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90 Human Hunter
3465
Second wind- 2% health every second, below 35% health

Spirit bond- 2% health every two seconds, no health penalty.

Which would you rather have?


Where are you getting 2%?

This shows 3%:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#w|

I often switch back and forth between exhiliration and spirit bond depending on the situation. Exhiliration is clearly better for arena.
Edited by Arrowset on 10/6/2012 7:57 PM PDT
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