ShurikenToss instead of Mutilate???

100 Gnome Rogue
18210
Well I tried it also. Granted my gear is reforged for Combat since there are so many cleave fights but I figure that isn't very important if I'm using the same gear for Mut or Shuriken Toss.

Much to my suprise my dps was practically identical. The rotation was nicer for those of us who are used to spamming our buttons. I imagine there might be a minor advantage to the 'Shuri' rotation in that you can get some combo points at a distance when switching targets.
Edited by Faiyd on 10/7/2012 8:46 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8875
I still dont get why no one takes the time to post a screen cap or log with these so called "tests".

Not that I doubt that ST may in fact eclipse mut (iirc FoK once out shined SS for combat due to energy cost) but because without numbers this is all just arbitrary.
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90 Human Rogue
12585
OP your crazy, the nerf has gotten to your head, you are now going insane.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r158/Shadowoftheheavens/gangnam.png
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Thats funny you mention. Ive been using it for about 3 days now. On training dummies it seems to beat mutilate rotation by a small margin. Thats with ilevel 460 and weapons about 440, so it might change as I gear up I guess. But it seems to flow much smoother, and in dungeons Im seeing ST beating mutilate by a larger margin. Im happy with it.

I didnt go through the damage logs but it seems to me that you get pretty close to 3 TS for the same energy as 1 mutilate, so 3 hits vs 2 hits (MH+OH). Thats 50% more poison procs, and (?) 50% more combo points per energy usage. I say (?) because Im not sure but I think we still get an extra combo point off a mut crit so it might not be a full 50% more combo pts. But its close.
Edited by Indrik on 10/7/2012 9:33 PM PDT
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90 Undead Rogue
TTG
11180
Timat, you're alright and all- but seriously people were doing this since beta and it was theorized ever since it became such common knowledge about how our energy regen is in the pooper. Numbers were never ran because well, it was the damn beta and nothing was "finalized" so you're not going to get this solid hard-worked mathed out proof of superiority you keep blabbing on about to feel elite. If someone presents a "new" idea, don't immediately shut them down as a troll because it's not what you read about on an EJ thread- if you're going to complain try it yourself to prove them wrong (assuming it's not something stupid like only using one dagger as combat) or can it.

That being said; yeah ST is alright but in the little bit I've played around with it, it either is non-significantly above or just about equal to using mut. Where it gets interesting is using it to avoid dancing around with 4 pts without a blindside proc. However; it is pretty obvious that once our gear levels increase it won't be anywhere near as viable anymore.
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100 Gnome Rogue
18210
Since Blizz hates offbeat specs and moves quickly to nerf them, it'll be interesting how they handle this. They could nerf ST but that would make it so nobody would ever take it or they could buff Mut.

Lol, so those who want Mut fixed shouldn't be poo-pooing using ST and instead moving to it wholesale. That'll ensure Blizz gets off it's duff and does something. :P
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90 Undead Rogue
5780
Since Blizz hates offbeat specs and moves quickly to nerf them, it'll be interesting how they handle this. They could nerf ST but that would make it so nobody would ever take it or they could buff Mut.

Lol, so those who want Mut fixed shouldn't be poo-pooing using ST and instead moving to it wholesale. That'll ensure Blizz gets off it's duff and does something. :P


Indeed all this seems to suggest is that mut is not strong enough if it can be replaced in the rotation.
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90 Human Rogue
7605
10/07/2012 10:06 PMPosted by Ådp
Indeed all this seems to suggest is that mut is not strong enough if it can be replaced in the rotation.


^ ^ ^
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90 Human Rogue
7605
10/07/2012 09:16 PMPosted by Packofcrows
OP your crazy, the nerf has gotten to your head, you are now going insane


Which nerf? because I've played since Vanilla.. there has been more nerfs then i can remember... Does any of that have an affect on what we are talking about now? No... im simply pointing out that Mutilate is in bad enough condition... that i question the viability of alternate CP generators to make a smoother spec... for example... When hemo became more popular then backstab due to general energy/combo point/positional simplicity.... Seeing as how assassination is now turning into a poison dot spec.. having a RANGED combo generator that flows better than our melee attack?.... problem?

Oh yeah.. and you can still just spam shuriken toss while you are disarmed.. lawl.
Edited by Mercifull on 10/7/2012 11:10 PM PDT
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90 Human Rogue
7605
No troll
Edited by Mercifull on 10/7/2012 11:00 PM PDT
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97 Night Elf Rogue
3925
ok so i just went ahead and tested this. no stealthing just keeping rupture and snd up i got this
muti-24k dps
shuriken toss-22k
although im still gearing up and might not have had the most accurate test. And seeing as ST is ranged your going to be able to keep up your dps during mechanics on boss fights and ranged classes in pvp.
just as an added bonus i popped my gladiators trinket-vendetta-shadow blades macro and muti went up to 29k while Shuriken went up to 27k, please somebody do this test and see if you get the same results as me because i think this is worth a look at and possibly a buff to rogue CP builders.
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90 Human Rogue
7605
based upon what recount tells me on a level 90 test dummy in my PVP suit... my mut rotation is leveling out around 32.5k.. and my shuriken rotation is leveling out around 31k
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7 Gnome Mage
0
Had to login to my rogue and try this, 4 mins each one. Only about a 800-1100 dps difference for me in favor of mut but the rotation feels wayyyyy better with ST. I can believe I tried it but I'm glad I did. I'll be using ST for now. This is def the way to go for sin pvp with burst of speed imo.

Edit: This is crazy lol.
Edited by Urtho on 10/7/2012 11:41 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
8875
10/07/2012 09:33 PMPosted by Syger
Timat, you're alright and all- but seriously people were doing this since beta and it was theorized ever since it became such common knowledge about how our energy regen is in the pooper. Numbers were never ran because well, it was the damn beta and nothing was "finalized" so you're not going to get this solid hard-worked mathed out proof of superiority you keep blabbing on about to feel elite. If someone presents a "new" idea, don't immediately shut them down as a troll because it's not what you read about on an EJ thread- if you're going to complain try it yourself to prove them wrong (assuming it's not something stupid like only using one dagger as combat) or can it.


I am not shutting him down, hell I am not even saying he is wrong. It might very well be the case that ST>Mut.

But the fact is without any numerical proof his statements mean squat. I was in beta and never heard of ST replacing Mut (I did hear about FoK replacing SS for combat). And since its not that hard to post a screen shot of the DPS logs....there really is no reason coming in here without any numbers.

This is also in addition to him demanding a blue post....I mean if you are going to do something as brazen as that at least have the common decency to post some proof.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
5310
...the guy basically was giving a statement on his experiences, it was a take it or leave it from what it seems. I would go out and try it myself, but I don't have a good pair of daggers. :/
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You know what this reminds me of?

HaT spec at the beginning of WotLK. Used and exposed up until Blizzard nerfed it to proc ever 2 seconds instead of every crit the raid had. (LOL INSTA 5 CP!)

In any case, could you put up a World of Logs parse? I'm not 90 obviously but it would be nice to see some proof from someone.

Just 2 Rogues similarly geared for about 10 minutes? Obviously there won't be an execute phase and no other buffs than the passive and master poisoner.
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100 Troll Rogue
9120
10/08/2012 06:31 AMPosted by Sucia
Just 2 Rogues similarly geared for about 10 minutes? Obviously there won't be an execute phase and no other buffs than the passive and master poisoner.


Or the same rogue twice.
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90 Undead Rogue
5980
Alright I tried mute spec for 3 minute on the raid trainer's dummy here is the result selfbuffed with flask of the winds + 300 agility because the new one are too expensive, food + 250 agility and agility potion on use + 4000 agility for 25 second. http://imageshack.us/f/268/dpstestmutejpg.jpg/.

And this is the result of shuriken toss for 3 minute on the raid trainer's dummy with the same flask,food, and agility potion on use I am still new to this so my rotation might not be perfect http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/dpstesshurikentestjpg.jpg/.
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10/08/2012 06:38 AMPosted by Redfang
Just 2 Rogues similarly geared for about 10 minutes? Obviously there won't be an execute phase and no other buffs than the passive and master poisoner.


Or the same rogue twice.


YOUR LOGIC HAS NO PLACE HERE!

>.>
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90 Undead Rogue
5980
I find that with shuriken toss it's more easy to keep the envenom buff.
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