ShurikenToss instead of Mutilate???

90 Night Elf Rogue
9480
10/08/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Diggingahole


A shuriken from 2 feet away from the point it leaves one's hand =/= 2 feet away from the person attempting to throw

Again, attempting to go pseudo-intellectual isn't doing you any favors.


Yes because setting am arrow and drawing down on a bow at 2 feet is so much easier. A thrown shuriken has an equal chance at landing a hit as a swung sword. The motions are nearly identical.


Just...just stop before you hurt yourself...
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
10/08/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Diggingahole
Yes because setting am arrow and drawing down on a bow at 2 feet is so much easier. A thrown shuriken has an equal chance at landing a hit as a swung sword. The motions are nearly identical.


A bow was never part of the equation.

Plus, the motions for swinging a sword (with the exception of one type of swing) is nothing even comparable to throwing.

You're trying way too hard to defend an obscure stance that, in reality, is completely irrelevant to the overall issue.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
I think the better question is, what kind of idiot would throw a Shuriken in melee range? They could just stab the target with it or better yet, use their melee weaponry!
Edited by Knocrogue on 10/8/2012 11:24 AM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
14265
Hmm, seems like this ability might be good in PvP. Say you get rooted, you cast Shuriken till 5 cp, caster tries to cast a spell, deadly throw for the 6 sec lock out and slow.

Could you make a macro to use mutilate in melee range and Shuriken when not in melee range? If so, then you could just spam the same button.
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Could you make a macro to use mutilate in melee range and Shuriken when not in melee range? If so, then you could just spam the same button.


No Im pretty sure macros wont allow that. If the mut fails due to range the macro stops. You could possibly make one that does ST if you hit shift-keybind, but that macro-fu is beyond my talents.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
5295
10/08/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Knocrogue
I think the better question is, what kind of idiot would throw a Shuriken in melee range? They could just stab the target with it or better yet, use their melee weaponry!


Unless they have invented a automatic shuriken thrower attached to their daggers so they can both stab and shoot shuriken at once!!! muwahahahahahahahah!

on a side note the glove rocket doesn't have a minimum range either, even if that sounds extremely hazardous... I blame hunter changes mostly, and I have to ask because I know I didn't: has anyone actually tried to deadly throw in mellee range?
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
10/08/2012 11:15 AMPosted by Diggingahole
So you are so incredibly dense that you refuse to accept that throwing a shuriken in its' traditionally compact underhanded throwing motion and landing a hit at 2 feet away is possible I don't know what to say... ridiculous is the first word that comes to mind.


I'm saying it's physically impossible to throw a shuriken with enough force to do any damage for most people. I am, by no means, a large guy (5'7", 160 lbs), and my arms are 2 feet long.

This means I wouldn't have any room to to lean or step in order to maximize the force in my throw without hitting the target before I could reach the proper extension to make my throw, thus rendering the weapon useless for throwing. Furthermore, as mentioned, Shuriken aren't thrown at close range unless it's a last resort. It's not practical to use such a weapon in short range.

So, please, lay off the pseudo-intellectual bull crap that, to reiterate, has nothing to do with the matter at hand.
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100 Worgen Death Knight
10755
10/08/2012 10:40 AMPosted by Diggingahole
This is simple high school physics of projectile motion


Except that the only thing that would reduce the force exerted by the object over the distance would be air friction, and considering the size and shape of a shuriken its safe to say thats pretty neglible. Any force exerted upward would be reduced by gravity, but horizontal force would remain the same.

Just to bring some "highschool physics" into the equation.

And because I'm bored.
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90 Undead Rogue
6785
[quote="67931810157"]has anyone actually tried to deadly throw in mellee range?


Deadly Throw states 5-30 range. So there's a minimum range there and won't work at melee.

For the record... I don't even bother with mutilate, I have much more fun with ST spamming and actually being able to use finishers. At this point, I don't care about the math, ST is a more fun playstyle, and when i'm simply farming BGs, that's all I care about.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
12085
I've been running some numbers comparing a ST rotation to the normal mut+dispatch rotation and ST seems fairly competitive. Even though the mut+dispatch rotation seems to always be higher, a ST rotation seems to be within 10% at its worst case and in practice might be as low as 5% behind. Basically, the ST rotation should have a much higher uptime that mostly mitigates the damage loss of mut+dispatch. As we gear further the mut+dispach rotation will probably pull further ahead though since it scales with weapon damage.

While it is clearly behind, the fact that it is much more interactive right now might draw more people to it.
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90 Human Rogue
7605
10/08/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Anza
All these 'tests' done on raid dummys aren't taking into account the execute with dispatch phase nor the bonus of anticipation if you use that instead of ST


That is because in a raid fight, during a dispatch phase.. you are just using dispatch instead of mut or shuriken toss.. so either way, this is for the 35%-100% phase... dispatch is 35%-0% either way!
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90 Human Rogue
7605
10/08/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Sheevah
Shuriken aren't thrown at close range unless it's a last resort. It's not practical to use such a weapon in short range.


Is that why Ninja's developed specific shuriken fighting tactics to defeat samurai? Ninja's could not go toe to toe with the samurai sword skills so they used crossbows and short range shurikens (like 20 of them) to kill samurai. Not Practical? Go learn medieval history.
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90 Human Rogue
7605
10/08/2012 11:44 AMPosted by Dazlinn
Say you get rooted, you cast Shuriken till 5 cp, caster tries to cast a spell, deadly throw for the 6 sec lock out and slow.


^... number 1 tactic for ANY time a gap appears between you and your target... unless you can manage a restealth which is becoming more unlikely per patch.

not to mention you can shuriken to 5.. wait a second or 2 for full energy. then kidney.. in 1 on 1 i love to blind with a 5 point kidney just waiting, so if they trinket i follow with a shadow step kidney shadow blades+vendetta burst..
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90 Human Rogue
7605
The only time i find mutilate actually worth casting is when i am Steealthed with Shadow Focus! Otherwise i think the energy requirement for such pathetic damage is unacceptable...Considering i would lose either a stun or a silence/bleed for a free Mut in PVP.. its still not viable... Is this reminding anyone of Backstab/Hemo Days from way back in arena season 3?
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
Is that why Ninja's developed specific shuriken fighting tactics to defeat samurai? Ninja's could not go toe to toe with the samurai sword skills so they used crossbows and short range shurikens (like 20 of them) to kill samurai. Not Practical? Go learn medieval history.


The short range in the context of the conversation that you quoted that from was 2 feet.

You show me a ninja standing 2 feet away from a samurai armed with nothing but a shuriken, and I can show you a corpse a few seconds later. Heck, even you said they couldn't go toe to toe, which would qualify as short range.

The shuriken you're referencing would fall into "mid-range" weaponry. (Edit: "mid-range" being relative to the context of the original conversation)

lrn2readingcomprehension
Edited by Sheevah on 10/8/2012 5:15 PM PDT
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90 Human Rogue
7605
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuriken

Please go read before you continue to communicate false information.

First Sentence...

A shuriken (Japanese 手裏剣; literally: "sword hidden in the hand") is a traditional Japanese concealed weapon that was generally used for throwing, and sometimes stabbing or slashing.

That would mean?.. melee
Edited by Mercifull on 10/8/2012 5:24 PM PDT
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuriken

Please go read before you continue to communicate false information.


You do realize there is nothing in that article that refutes anything I've said, correct?

Also, "lol it's wikipedia".
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90 Human Rogue
7605
Other REAL LIFE applications of a shuriken also mentioned...

Shuriken, especially hira-shuriken, were also used in other novel ways—they might be embedded in the ground, injuring those who stepped on them (similar to a caltrop or makibishi), wrapped in fuse to be lit and thrown to cause fire, or wrapped in a cloth soaked in poison and lit to cover an area with a cloud of poisonous smoke. They can also be used as a handheld striking weapon in close combat.
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10 Goblin Rogue
10610
A shuriken (Japanese 手裏剣; literally: "sword hidden in the hand") is a traditional Japanese concealed weapon that was generally used for throwing, and sometimes stabbing or slashing.

That would mean?.. melee


Hey look, from your same article.

Contrary to popular belief, shuriken were not primarily intended as a killing weapon, but rather as a secondary weapon that sometimes played a role supportive to a main weapon, usually the sword or spear. Shuriken were primarily used to cause either nuisance or distraction


Again, meaning they would be worthless against a samurai in close quarters.

Besides, none of that has to do with the matter at hand, which is clearly that "Shuriken Toss" which is listed as "a ranged attack" isn't meant to be used as a combo builder in melee.
Edited by Sheevah on 10/8/2012 5:30 PM PDT
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