Problems with Priests: No math thanks

90 Pandaren Priest
9955
Please list your experiences with Discipline and Holy in this thread.

I'd appreciate it if you do NOT provide math, because at the moment there isn't any useful data to dissect the issues we are seeing. Please list you experiences in the following manner:

Spec: Discipline or Holy

Content: Raid name, Raid Size

Healing roster: Priest + Shaman/Monk/Paladin/Druid/Priest

Observations: A summary of your observations during the encounter

Concerns: A summary of your concerns with regard to your observations
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90 Pandaren Priest
TF
6360
1) Certain aspects of our toolkit lacks synergy, notably with IF, SS and AA. There's no reason why they shouldn't stack.

2) Disc's lack of a smart, raid heal means that we have NO efficient way of dealing with random damage on the raid apart from our rather inefficient single-target heals. This wasn't as much an issue in Cata where most fights featured stacked raids and when Disc was able to spam PW:S.

3) Disc has more mana issues than the other healers - our throughput is limited by our mana to a greater extent as we do not have a hyper efficient heal (think PBAoE heals or smart raid heals) to help with efficiency. This coupled with the previous point compounds the issue. Good news, this means we'll probably scale well once we get much more Spirit. Bad news, enjoy this tier healing conservatively or risk going OOM at inopportune times.

4) Priest talents have little synergy with Disc. Divine Insight is absolute rubbish as the randomness of it precludes it from being a reliable source of single-target burst (if Disc even has the mana to afford it). As I suggested earlier, give Disc Holy's version of Divine Insight.

Moreover, Disc has very little opportunity to use PW: Solace as the necessity of building up Evan stacks eats up necessary GCDs. Perhaps letting PW: Solace build up Evan stacks might make it more viable.

I'm not arguing that Disc has no viable options, but they're severely limited, and isn't the whole point of the talent revamp to give us more choices?

5) The efficiency of PW:S is terrible. With our mana constraints, there's no way to afford casting it outside of proccing Rapture.

6) I've healed on a Resto Druid in Cata (and their toolkit remains rather unchanged and in fact, increasing the duration of LB and Harmony has simplified the class) and Disc/Holy for quite a while. Unlike the other classes, Disc has a LOT more short CDs to manage, and the amount of effort required to optimally heal as Disc is much higher compared to the other classes. This is a personal complaint of mine, but the reward:effort ratio for Disc is so far below the other healers.

TLDR; Disc is viable but not optimal. We need tweaks to our toolkit to bring us up to par with the others.

Edit: Oops, forgot to follow your formatting!
Edited by Ceddya on 10/7/2012 12:17 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Spec: Holy

Content: Stone Guard, 10 man

Healing Roster: Holy Paladin, Resto Druid, Me

Observations: Mana feels EXTREMELY tight on this fight. We got Jade, Amethyst, and Jasper, so we had pools all over the floor. Tank damage was fairly extreme. I ran OOM several times. I felt that I had the power to heal things, but that my mana simply couldn't keep up with my spells. I used Mindbender on CD, Hymn of Hope, and Arcane Torrent on CD. We did die a few times to a lack of healing, but it was an issue where all the healers were OOM (generally, I had been OOM far longer than the others).

Concerns: Mana. It seems that any time there is hard incoming damage, I simply can't keep up. I try to save Cascade for times we really need it, due to the high cost, but with us being a 10 man, it often feels like a waste.

I hope this doesn't count as math, but I figure logs would be a good way of looking at what I'm talking about:

Here is the log: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lpcszbacca7863cs/sum/healingDone/?s=3770&e=4138

-------------------------

Spec: Holy

Content: Feng the Accursed, 10 man

Healing Roster: Holy Paladin, Resto Druid, me

Observations: My mana directly depends on RNG in this fight. If the boss casts his lightning fists when he's supposed to (he seemed to not be casting it AT ALL at points, or the Druid would dodge the cast and yeah...) then we're able to interrupt the Epicenter several times. However, if we're not, my mana tanks before the second phase. We had a lot of trouble with P2, due to people not dropping fire where they should and the tank having trouble with the nullification bubble (which seems to bug out at times and not work at all, even when it's off CD when it's used). On our longest attempts, I was hard OOM by the third phase, having used Mindbender on CD, Arcane Torrent on CD, Hymn of Hope, and a Master Mana Potion. My Divine Hymn had a less than 10% overheal on this fight. Lightspring Renew seemed to be an absolute must have - I'm convinced it saved the raid several times when I simply couldn't get to everyone at once. Lightspring was often used up before the CD came up again.

Concerns: Mana. Mana. Mana. I'm starving for mana. Even using my CDs to their best ability, it feels like I'm just struggling for mana on this fight.

Our longest attempts:
6:22 secs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lpcszbacca7863cs/sum/healingDone/?s=8138&e=8521
7:05 secs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lpcszbacca7863cs/sum/healingDone/?s=8856&e=9282
6:32 secs - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lpcszbacca7863cs/sum/healingDone/?s=17038&e=17431

As an aside, I will be trying Disc tonight on Feng. I'm terrified to do so, because of how bad my AOE healing was in 5 mans, but I am going to try it. I'll update this with my observations then.
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90 Draenei Priest
11715
Coming in as Disc:

I feel it's mostly a matter of not having an effective group heal that doesn't start eating our mana pool up at an insane rate, or a proc that allows us to do it.

Our costs are high, our throughput is meh. I've given up on pieces if they don't have int and enough of a secondary stat to reforge back to spirit. I feel like this is severely taxing our throughput because of having to tunnel vision spirit just to remain standing.

I run with one tank, a very competent bear. We've got amazing synergy and he knows my playstyle amazingly well- we've been grouped up everyday for well over six months now, so we know each other like the back of our hands. I feel like this is the only thing that has allowed me to even pay attention to other melee dps.

During trash I'm fine. During bosses with any sort of aoe damage, unless the dps know to stand back I'm likely going to be in trouble. I have OOMed in every single Direbrew I've been in.

The thing that hits the hardest is that it used to be that if someone was an idiot and asspulled, I could deal with it. I had enough leeway to bubble someone in an emergency. Now I feel like I'm constantly toeing the line. Luckily people have been very forgiving lately and owning up when it wasn't my fault (and being nice when it is) but this has gone beyond 'we want you to manage your mana'. When you deliberately set up a spec so that they're starved for mana and you make their spells so high cost- especially the spell they're supposed to be known for, PW:S, you're inviting trouble.

I will say this expac is making me a better healer, and I wasn't crappy before. But right now I feel like I'm letting people down by healing on this toon.
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5 Dwarf Priest
0

I'd appreciate it if you do NOT provide math, because at the moment there isn't any useful data to dissect the issues we are seeing. Please list you experiences in the following manner:



There are thousands of samples on WoL. More than enough to make many statistically valid conclusions. Anybody who says we don't have useful data is being disingenuous.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955

I'd appreciate it if you do NOT provide math, because at the moment there isn't any useful data to dissect the issues we are seeing. Please list you experiences in the following manner:



There are thousands of samples on WoL. More than enough to make many statistically valid conclusions. Anybody who says we don't have useful data is being disingenuous.


There is another thread on the first page. If you have logs and statistics then post them there. Thanks.
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90 Gnome Priest
11895
Small anecdote for Disc:

My Raptures, towards the beginning of Cataclysm before I'd really set foot in heroics, reduced the effective cost of PW:S by approximately 90%. My mana pool hadn't quite hit 100k, I was still using Inner Will to try and boost my mana just a bit more. Now? I'd be lucky if Rapture reduced the effective cost of PW:S by half.

I know they don't want Rapture to scale out of control, but even back at the beginning of Cataclysm I didn't have issues with mana quite this prevalent.
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5 Dwarf Priest
0


There are thousands of samples on WoL. More than enough to make many statistically valid conclusions. Anybody who says we don't have useful data is being disingenuous.


There is another thread on the first page. If you have logs and statistics then post them there. Thanks.


I'm not posting logs, I'm pointing out that a sample size of thousands that contains objective data of different classes facing the exact same content, all with gear in the same range, is more than enough to draw many many statistically valid conclusions.

Just because someone doesn't like what the data says doesn't mean the data isn't valid.

Short version: people who say we don't have enough data are trolling.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
10/07/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Erda
Short version: people who say we don't have enough data are trolling.


That may be, Erda. But please, you aren't helping. Please don't derail this thread.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9955


There is another thread on the first page. If you have logs and statistics then post them there. Thanks.


I'm not posting logs, I'm pointing out that a sample size of thousands that contains objective data of different classes facing the exact same content, all with gear in the same range, is more than enough to draw many many statistically valid conclusions.

Just because someone doesn't like what the data says doesn't mean the data isn't valid.

Short version: people who say we don't have enough data are trolling.


Thanks.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12435
Unless you make the spellpower buff something ridiculous like 40%, it'll be a nerf to using AA outside of SS for Disc, and at 40% SS would be rather ridiculous and scale to godmode in future tiers.

Edit: For PoH, at least. Ignoring GHeal since it doesn't really enter discussions about SS much.
Edited by Nixx on 10/7/2012 2:31 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Priest
4490
Chakra needs to be looked at.

It's really restricting the holy spec.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
10/07/2012 03:05 PMPosted by Niktesla
One time a priest punched me in the nose!


Could you please contribute? :(
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
10/07/2012 05:20 PMPosted by Niktesla
Could you please contribute? :(


Hard. One time a priest punched me in he nose, hard.


If you're going to troll, please leave. It's not helpful.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7545
Spec: Both, disc and holy.

Content: Vaults, 10m

Healing roster: Me(priest), a priest and a shaman.

Observations:
Summery: 21 tries on first boss, dps was only 2/3rds of average kill dps. Hps was 3k above average kill. DK tanks were very squishy and almost required dedicated healers.

I played both specs in different attempts, pulling roughly the same hps in each spec. Myself and the other priest were always oom far before the shaman. We'd wipe and I'd have 1/8th of my mana left, he'd have half. We were all pulling roughly equal hps. Was doing best I could for regen. Was using a spirit flask and inner will(for holy), using mana CDs as soon as they were ready. Still couldn't hold mana.

Concerns:
I'm rerolling druid until priest gets fixed. I can work my !@# off to do competitive hps, but I know I could do twice as well with a functional healing class. I love the versatility of priest healing but it's just not worth the stress. So, farewell till then.

An unrelated concern of mine is that paladins and shamans both got smart heals this expansion. Blizzard, I find it insulting that you don't trust the skill of the player to do the healing and pick the targets anymore. That you make sure every healer has a spell that there is literally NEVER a bad time to use as long as there are players to heal. I feel like soon you're slowly going to try to make healers function like dps, where we ignore targeting players and just cast nothing but smart heals under a priority rotation.
Edited by Rizzea on 10/7/2012 6:19 PM PDT
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