Is the Arcane Mage Dead?

100 Human Mage
14000
10/12/2012 08:45 PMPosted by Sattyn
In PvE, you couldn't be any more wrong. Arcane is not only way more fun, but is better too.


Inferno:
Arcane is fine for both aoe and single target. It doesn't have as much aoe as frost but it can certainly come close.
...
Arcane blast just serves as a filler to proc missiles now as it is no longer viable to spam it for high dps. (thank god)

Oh look, 2 more Fire/Frost mages that are really happy about the Arcane changes.
/rolleyes

It's really unfortunate that all of the people who enjoy Arcane SO much more now don't actually play Arcane, while the people who want to play Arcane generally dislike how it works currently (that is: long ramp up, missiles RNG, more dependent on lvl 90 talents than other specs).


Has it crossed your mind (since looking at a snapshot of someone's armory profile) that since the content is still new that people are trying out all the new stuff? Is it possible that, just maybe, you see Fire/Frost on their Armory page and you're just assuming that those are the specs they've chosen to stick with for the next two years? Is it possible that perhaps they have tried Arcane? Did play Arcane...dare I say... will play arcane?

Can you identify to us all of the people who claim to enjoy arcane SO much? Furthermore, can you state with any real confidence that they are not actually playing Arcane? Switching between specs as they experience the new content?

Look if people wanna go by the numbers... which are only marginally different by comparison... then yes, you can say that there is a "bad spec" but the truth is, in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of players who are open minded and willing to experiment... that there is no such thing as a bad spec... just a bad player.

Its in our human nature to resist change. We are creatures of habit. Understandable... so with that understanding it should be also understood that it takes time to develop new habits (ie new rotations, new understandings of systems). No bad spec... just bad players.
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90 Human Mage
IQ
8250
10/13/2012 09:06 PMPosted by Onieous
Look if people wanna go by the numbers... which are only marginally different by comparison... then yes, you can say that there is a "bad spec" but the truth is, in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of players who are open minded and willing to experiment... that there is no such thing as a bad spec... just a bad player.


The specs playability is fine. Arcane needs a buff. What is it about that you dont understand. Arcane needs a buff, plain and simple. Doesnt matter how good you are if the numbers are off to begin with.
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90 Gnome Mage
12045
Weren't AM, AB and ABarr nerfed by 3.5% only a few weeks ago - September hotfix?
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100 Human Mage
14000
10/14/2012 06:58 AMPosted by Batar
Look if people wanna go by the numbers... which are only marginally different by comparison... then yes, you can say that there is a "bad spec" but the truth is, in my opinion and in the opinion of a lot of players who are open minded and willing to experiment... that there is no such thing as a bad spec... just a bad player.


The specs playability is fine. Arcane needs a buff. What is it about that you dont understand. Arcane needs a buff, plain and simple. Doesnt matter how good you are if the numbers are off to begin with.


I know I haven't fully explored arcane. I still need to raid with it. I'm sure I'll find the time. But so far I haven't seen much of a difference in the numbers... so I DON'T understand where this need for a buff is stemming from... unless its a case by case basis where individual players feel that need. So far (and I may be in for a rude a wakening when I raid with the spec) arcane is comparable.
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90 Human Mage
IQ
8250
5 mans, soloing can compete all day long, usually top the meters in 5 mans as arcane, mostly because of gimmicks like shatter, which isnt usable in raid, and AP. Hopefully you'll be able to jump in there this week and see how it does. I look forward to seeing your opinions after the raid, or actually anyones as it still appears im the only in the forums raiding as arcane.
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100 Human Mage
14000
I've done one LFR so far (three or four days ago), didn't get to finish, but I did it as frost. What I like about frost is the ability to do a lot of burst and even if you fall down on the list you can climb back up with good attention to rotation and its the only way to capitalize on shatters from what I understand because of FoF (like you said you can't freeze a raid boss, but you can treat it as frozen). I'm gonna give it a shot today and see how it plays out. I still have to try fire in raiding too. :)
Edited by Onieous on 10/14/2012 11:08 AM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
11535
so far only time i felt arcane is at all good is on Elegon if your guild is slacking on orbs, but besides that fire is @@!#@@*%*% in dps and little rng now with it
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100 Human Mage
14000
Just got done completing an LFR for the first time. My first completion and I did it in arcane. Started with using Temporal Shield and Incanter's Ward for the passives, burst, and damage refund. I was fluctuating between 7th and 14th in DPS. There was some difficulty with timing the pop of Incanter's Ward and the Temporal Shield. After second boss, I switched to RoP and Ice Barrier. Fluctuated between first and second in DPS, never fell below 7th. I don't know if I'd go as far as to say Arcane needs a buff. I would definitely say its not dead, but I will say it could use some tweaks to make it slightly more comparable. These tweak suggestions are already in a separate thread in the Mage forums.

In my first run in LFR (an incomplete run) I was Frost. Maintained between 1st and 5th. Found it easy to climb back up the meter after mechanic forced movements because of shatter timings and the large host of shatter opportunities.

I've yet to try fire, but I will next week. I have a feeling fire will be quite an experience, but so far I feel pretty good about all of the specs. I can't even say that I like one over the other from the perspective of numbers because there are definitely ways to equalize each of them to perform comparably. What I can say about how I rank them in my opinion is:

Fire: I like the aesthetics and the sound. Its always really cool to see and hear explosions that make you feel like you're doing some real damage. Combine everything in the right order, time it properly and you have a huge amount of burst that looks cool and ticks the enemy down to boot.

Frost: The shatters provide an awesome amount of burst. A little less fancy on the look unless you have a huge water elemental and split your ice lances, but otherwise I like the FEEL of ice especially with the ability to know what's coming and how much control you have over it as well.

Arcane: Many fewer shatters, especially in raid, but viable and flexible as a spec. There are definite differences in the mechanics and feel between questing and raiding and there's a great amount of sustainability from mastery with runes, but a large amount of burst available outside of cooldowns with Incanter's Ward. Arcane has a different feel to it, sure, but I really like it with only a few minor exceptions: I think Rune should be more of an aura and anchored to the player much like Presence of mind is so that it reduces downtime of dps casts thus increasing dps average. And Temporal shield should be combined with the old incanter's ward passive that blows back enemies after its finished doing its things.

That's my take on it. I enjoyed arcane and will continue to practice with it to provide any feedback I can that might help anyone who's looking or cares about it anymore lol.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
9130
What the hell is arcane? i didnt even know we had this... arcane spec

must be a joke of a spec
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100 Human Death Knight
11185
Arcane has been dead to good mages since forever.
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90 Gnome Mage
0
I dont understand why you would feel arcane is dead?

We now have access to most of the frost cc plus the added bonus of arcanes build up dps.

Arcane has never been a mobile dps nore has it been a great pvp spec... when playing against NON-morons, but it is still fun for pvp.

The dps average is fine.... stack mastery and use your rune of power (dont let it expire). If you have to move fine move and go right back to the rune.... if you cant drop another.

I averaged at ilvl 472, 50k dps in 10 man vaults. If thats dead im confused. I dont go for burst i maintain 85%+ mana pool and use arcane power every time its up. The only time i have issues with mana is when i forget to drop another rune or hit too many AB's without watching due to other crap going on.... but even with mistakes like that i hold solid dps. Use alter time to bring u back to a 6 stack buff and to extend hero/lust/TW. It's easy... too many fails trying to play it the old way.
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90 Human Mage
IQ
8250
10/16/2012 03:45 AMPosted by Sparkler
I averaged at ilvl 472, 50k dps in 10 man vaults.


What bosses? on trash? 50k average says nothing. I looked for some parses of your guild, didnt see any. Be a little more specific please.
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90 Gnome Mage
0
10/16/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Batar
I averaged at ilvl 472, 50k dps in 10 man vaults.


What bosses? on trash? 50k average says nothing. I looked for some parses of your guild, didnt see any. Be a little more specific please.


first 2 bosses.... if you count trash ur a retard.
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90 Human Mage
IQ
8250
10/16/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Sparkler
first 2 bosses.... if you count trash ur a retard.


40/60? 50/50?. I know trash means nothing, but you didnt specify which bosses or what numbers you pulled, since both bosses have different mechanics. Ones a cleave and ones a single target, ones heavy movement the other stationary. Would help if you were a little more specific.
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10/16/2012 03:45 AMPosted by Sparkler
I averaged at ilvl 472, 50k dps in 10 man vaults. If thats dead im confused.

It's "dead" because you'd do more DPS, more consistently, with more room for error and with less effort using Fire or Frost. Same goes (obviously) for PvP.
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Change it to a healing tree, imo. Give this class some real options.
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100 Goblin Mage
17260
10/16/2012 05:53 PMPosted by Sattyn
I averaged at ilvl 472, 50k dps in 10 man vaults. If thats dead im confused.

It's "dead" because you'd do more DPS, more consistently, with more room for error and with less effort using Fire or Frost. Same goes (obviously) for PvP.


This. It seems like so much damn micromanagement with the stack system just to hope to pull out the same kind of dps you'd get by simply spamming fireball/inferno blast/pyro.

As much as I don't want to say Blizzard needs to simplify anything in this game, Arcane is just too technical for its own good. The two extra stacks were just a stupid way to fix PvP burst.
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90 Gnome Mage
9715
The potential DPS of arcane is just unreachable, so most people are going for the easy dps in Fire and Frost.

As the tiny master of Evil, I found it really hard to switch to fire.... that is, until I saw the Worldoflogs.com numbers. The average damage vs Gara'jal is roughly 18k higher in 20th place for fire than for arcane. This trend continues for most other bosses, sparing heroic ones with very limited data.

While I do realize some of this difference in DPS comes from just the shear number of great mages choosing fire and frost over arcane, that cannot explain all of it. Especially since my dps increased from ~40-50kdps per fight as arcane to 65-75kdps when I respecced fire and regeared all to 3056 haste and rest into crit....

The defenders of arcane still being viable are not wrong, there is just an obvious difference between viable for the raiding, and viable for competitive damage / progression / carrying your guild's damage.
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